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JGTBH
12-22-06, 11:55 AM
My Daughter has been accepted to every school she has applied to for the fall of 2007. She is top 20% of her class and made a 1250 SAT. She wants to major in Psychology, but I could see that changing many times between now and 2012. I kind of thought she would end up at Texas, but she got scarred by how big it is. She has now narrowed her choices to Baylor and North Texas. I'm a teacher and my wife is a secretary, so college anywhere is going to be a financial pain in the butt for our family.

She would like to know what makes Baylor worth the extra $25,000 a year?

I'll hang up and listen...

Ghostrider
12-22-06, 12:11 PM
If I could not afford BU, I would not go....why go so far in debt? There is very little correlation between where you graduate and how much money you make (ie see the CEO's of the top 200 largest companies....not many Ivy Leaguers).

If she were my daughter I'd look at UT or ATM though over UNT.

PhiChi56
12-22-06, 12:27 PM
1250? I made that in the sixth grade. Seriously.

piratestef
12-22-06, 12:37 PM
One of the biggest things that's impressed me about Baylor and kept me here was the fact that most of the profs actually care about the students. I've had more trouble just staying healthy than most college students ever have to deal with (hence BBL's sarcastolicious thread on me, ha ha), but folks have worked with me on how I can get well and get through at the same time. Really impressive, IMHO. My parents swear up and down that if I'd have been at either of their schools (Purdue and Midwestern State), I'd have flunked out by now, no matter what got in the way of me making it to class.

Plus, there's basically all the typical "college" things--Homecoming, sports, Greeks, etc., etc. But then again, UNT probably has those, too. I don't know a lot about them at all. And heck, there's probably more to do there since it's so close to Dallas. Probably less of a freshman mass exodus on the weekends. And also probably a heck of a lot cheaper.

HoustonMedBear
12-22-06, 12:39 PM
1250? I made that in the sixth grade. Seriously.

I never scored that high. My highest was 1190. There is no correlation to SAT and intelligence. The SAT would never have predicted that I would be Phi Beta Kappa and graduate Cum Laude (should have been Magna Cum Laude).

Baylor is a good school. I took out heavy loans, but I followed a close friend there who chose the school for its pre-med program, but I'm relying on my future job to help me out of current debt, which is what pretty much every doctor does.

Good luck with the decision. It won't be easy. Sorry I can't offer more advice, except that I made some amazing friends that I would never know if I hadn't gone to Baylor (but the same can be said for people that choose other schools, so the argument doesn't really hold up).

JGTBH
12-22-06, 01:01 PM
1250? I made that in the sixth grade. Seriously.

do you have a point or are you just being a cock sucker?

Gaspergou
12-22-06, 01:02 PM
1250? I made that in the sixth grade. Seriously.

What's your point?

Santa Claus
12-22-06, 01:29 PM
Baylor: where the men are small like elves and the women are ho ho hoes! I'd have gone there if it had existed when Old Saint Nick went through school. What other school makes it onto Playboy's list every year while outlawing the printing of pictoral proof of said hotness? Oh yeah. Ho ho hoes, here I come!

PhiChi56
12-22-06, 01:30 PM
do you have a point or are you just being a cock sucker?

Cock sucker? Ouch.

People can call each other cock suckers on here now, but we can't even mention the word BEAR on the football board or we get banned?

PhiChi56
12-22-06, 01:32 PM
There is no correlation to SAT and intelligence. The SAT would never have predicted that I would be Phi Beta Kappa and graduate Cum Laude (should have been Magna Cum Laude).


This is certainly true. One of the smartest guys I've ever known was absolutely horrible at standardized tests. Now he's about to graduate from the Naval Academy with honors.

gowilde
12-22-06, 01:32 PM
I have a good friend who teaches at UNT, and he loves it there. (He taught at Baylor for about 10 years before accepting a chair position at UNT.) From what he tells me, UNT is sound academically. I'm not certain about the psych program there, but, as you say, your daughter may switch her mind. Oh, one point that my friend stresses is that UNT feels like a commuter campus. Students from DFW and Denton show up for classes and go home.

I've been a teacher at Baylor for over 20 years. And I just love it here. There's still a kind of "in loco parentis" atmosphere. It's true that profs care for students and help them as much as possible. (But I'm sure that's the case at other institutions, too.) Here, we're encouraged to get to know students and to mentor them.

There are too many Baylor traditions to list, but the school is steeped in tradition. The sorority system is strong here, if your daughter's interested in the social scene.

Best of all, Baylor has an outstanding psych and neuroscience department. It's one of the best in the state and consistently gets high ratings during reaccreditation reviews.

I'm sure that your daughter will have a meaningful and rich experience here at Baylor. But, as I say above, UNT is impressive, too.

Best wishes!

Reinhold Niebear
12-22-06, 01:35 PM
Given the choice between UNT and Baylor is no real choice at all ...

How does one get Phi Beta Kappa with cum laude?

Ghostrider
12-22-06, 01:48 PM
do you have a point or are you just being a cock sucker?
:lol: hell, that is doube my score

BaylorLine
12-22-06, 01:50 PM
UNT is huge -- about 25k. Surprised the size of UT scared her, but not UNT.

BaylorGuy314
12-22-06, 02:22 PM
I chose Baylor over numerous other schools because of class size. I'm a quick learner in most situations, but sitting in the back of a multi-hundred person auditorium isn't one of them.

As for the money issue, I Baylor isn't even close to $25,000/year MORE than UNT.

UNT's tuition is $3,056.
Baylor's tuition is $20,574

That's a difference of about $17,000 per year.

However, Baylor's average financial aid package is $12,114
UNT's average financial package is $4,034.

That's a difference of $8,000. So, in all, it costs about $9,000 more per year to go to Baylor.

I know pysch is one of the most popular majors at UNT, but I'd bet that Baylor's are rated just as high.

Again, I feel the hands-on teaching and small class sizes at BU helped me become a more educated individual than I would become at a much larger university. The classes at most of those schools are large and the teachers are more distant from the students.

In addition, the campus is smaller and it's easier to make long lasting relationships with many people.

JGTBH
12-22-06, 02:38 PM
The sorority system is strong here, if your daughter's interested in the social scene.


Best wishes!

JGTBH's Wife here.

The sorority system is actually one of the things that turns her off. She considers herself the antithesis of a "clique person", preferring to float in and out of a multitude of interest groups. Because Baylor IS so steeped in greek culture, I wonder if she wouldn't flounder there. Is there really anything for an "independent" young lady at Baylor? Or would she find herself out in the cold socially?

BaylorGuy314
12-22-06, 02:41 PM
JGTBH's Wife here.

The sorority system is actually one of the things that turns her off. She considers herself the antithesis of a "clique person", preferring to float in and out of a multitude of interest groups. Because Baylor IS so steeped in greek culture, I wonder if she wouldn't flounder there. Is there really anything for an "independent" young lady at Baylor? Or would she find herself out in the cold socially?

My fiance absolutely loved Baylor and she wasn't in a sorority. Yes, there is a large greek presence on campus, but with so many other student organizations, being Greek isn't what it used to be. That's my opinion though.

gowilde
12-22-06, 02:48 PM
JGTBH's Wife here.

The sorority system is actually one of the things that turns her off. She considers herself the antithesis of a "clique person", preferring to float in and out of a multitude of interest groups. Because Baylor IS so steeped in greek culture, I wonder if she wouldn't flounder there. Is there really anything for an "independent" young lady at Baylor? Or would she find herself out in the cold socially?

IMHO, there are many ways to socialize at Baylor. This prospective student could, for example, enroll in the BIC. She'd have 200 friends right off the bat. Or she could join any of the service organizations. Or she could pick and choose her opportunities, as you did.

Or she could create a facebook account! Then she'd have thousands of friends. Bwahahahahaha! :)

Yogi
12-22-06, 02:49 PM
It has been a long time since I was at Baylor.

I guess, believe it or not, I like the people. We are like one big dysfunctional family.

You just can't get that anywhere else.

baseballjunkie
12-22-06, 03:12 PM
My Daughter has been accepted to every school she has applied to for the fall of 2007. She is top 20% of her class and made a 1250 SAT. She wants to major in Psychology, but I could see that changing many times between now and 2012. I kind of thought she would end up at Texas, but she got scarred by how big it is. She has now narrowed her choices to Baylor and North Texas. I'm a teacher and my wife is a secretary, so college anywhere is going to be a financial pain in the butt for our family.

She would like to know what makes Baylor worth the extra $25,000 a year?

I'll hang up and listen...

Both my son and daughter attended Baylor. My son graduated in May. My daughter on the other hand, transferred to A&M after her first year.
After the expense of putting our son through Baylor, I really did not want my daughter to go there but she made the Varsity Yell Leader squad as a freshman, so we caved!

My son enjoyed his time there (must have...it took him 6 years to graduate!) My daughter, thought it was OK but was really turned off about the in-your-face religious remarks by some of the more agressive types and she thought that a lot of the girls were snobs.

However, now that she's experienced A&M, she said that she would go back to Baylor if it were not in Waco, because A&M is too big. Her main concern is the lack of access to the instructors at A&M when you need to ask questions and get help. Everything is done by appointment.
She likes the people that she's met and had made the Texas Ags Elite Competition Cheer squad until she was diagnosed with Lupus and had to quit.

If I had to do it over again, based entirely on the cost, Baylor would be not be an option. While my son had a positive experience at Baylor and met some life long friends, he could have gotten the same job he has now by attending a less expensive state school. He had actually transferred to U of Houston but when my husband was sent to Iraq, he transferred back to Baylor.

I can related to the many changes in majors... my daughter started with Psychology, and it has changed at least 3 times and she is barely a junior. She is now working towards a degree in Nursing...but I'm not holding my breath...that could change any day now!

Wherever your daughter chooses to go, my best advice would be for her to have an open mind and remember that she is going to be in an entirely different environment from high school.
There is a such a diverse group of people at college and it takes a little longer to get used to the environment.
Good luck to her wherever she ends up!

Bigshot628
12-22-06, 03:24 PM
I had a run-in with the police here in Waco and their exact words to me were... you're lucky you're a Baylor student otherwise we would arrest you. I paid my ticket and went back to my bubble.

JGTBH
12-22-06, 03:24 PM
UNT's tuition is $3,056.
Baylor's tuition is $20,574

That's a difference of about $17,000 per year.

However, Baylor's average financial aid package is $12,114
UNT's average financial package is $4,034.

That's a difference of $8,000. So, in all, it costs about $9,000 more per year to go to Baylor.

The Baylor Website lists total cost for 2007-2008 at $37,000...UNT lists theirs at $16,000 so I guess I should have said $20,000, but you are probably right on the financial aide package. We have not been to Waco to discuss this with the Financial Aide Office, but will be doing that soon in the New Year.

JGTBH
12-22-06, 03:29 PM
It has been a long time since I was at Baylor.

I guess, believe it or not, I like the people. We are like one big dysfunctional family.

You just can't get that anywhere else.

I agree Yogi...there are people here that I can disagree with on almost every subject that will ever come up, but I'd rather argue with them than with anyone else...It's like the old line about "I can say that about my brother, but nobody else can."

However, explaining that to an 18 year old girl is tough...

Yogi
12-22-06, 03:31 PM
I agree Yogi...there are people here that I can disagree with on almost every subject that will ever come up, but I'd rather argue with them than with anyone else...It's like the old line about "I can say that about my brother, but nobody else can."

However, explaining that to an 18 year old girl is tough...

Nothing against any of the universities I have attended, but the people are really what make Baylor special.

And I believe there is still more untapped potential in that area.

BaylorGuy314
12-22-06, 03:44 PM
The Baylor Website lists total cost for 2007-2008 at $37,000...UNT lists theirs at $16,000 so I guess I should have said $20,000, but you are probably right on the financial aide package. We have not been to Waco to discuss this with the Financial Aide Office, but will be doing that soon in the New Year.

I hope you didn't take it as a slap in the face. Most people see the big tuition at Baylor and freak out. (Rightfully so.)

However, BU does offer far more financial aid ($-wise) than most state schools, so it balances it out a little more.

BU is still going to cost $30-40k more after four years probably though.

BearFan04
12-22-06, 04:29 PM
What is your daugher's 40 time? How's her passing motion? Pocket presence?

TXKbear
12-22-06, 04:32 PM
It's ironic to me that your daughter is considering these two schools. My oldest son should graduate from UNT in August and my number 2 son wants to attend Baylor in the Fall of 2007. As a Baylor grad myself, I know a lot about both schools.

UNT is in many ways a commuter school. Maybe not as much as U of H, but definitely more than UT, A&M, or TTech. As a result, I feel Baylor has a lot more to offer in terms of student life activities.

UNT will definitely cost less - BUT, don't base your decision solely on that. It has been stated here already, few students pay "sticker" price at Baylor. Your daughter obviously qualifies for an academic scholarship and, based upon the family you have described, need-based aid is a certainty, as well.

Personally, I am proud of both of my sons' decisions. I feel #2 son will enjoy his years at Baylor and, as a parent, I feel the "marginally" higher tuition is well worth it for the smaller class sizes and the family atmosphere that I have always found prevalent at Baylor.

BearChick
12-22-06, 04:55 PM
The decision to attend Baylor vs. UNT isn't a financial one. It's a heart decision. I would not trade my years at Baylor for any pile of money. The cumulative experience was worth any extra dollars I spent there. Folks have touched on some of the aspects that I loved about Baylor. Wilde spoke of the affinity professors have for students and the "in loco parentis" atmosphere. I loved this. I knew my professors knew their stuff. I deeply appreciated the fact that they also knew me as a person. I could go in a professor's office just to talk--and I did--or to get help with my school work. There are professors that I still talk to from time to time.

I did not choose to go Greek while I was there and I never felt like I missed out on a thing. I had plenty of friends, Greek and non-Greek. I worked throughout school in the Theatre department and made friends there. I made friends at church. I made friends through volunteer opportunities I took advantage of. She will be able to join large organizations which are not Greek, but where she can form those same strong friendships. My husband was in a fraternity at Baylor, and wouldn't change that either. So, if she does change her mind and decide to join a sorority, she would be happy doing that too. As in life, you make as many friends as you choose to put in the effort for.

I loved Baylor's Christian atmosphere (and this was pre-2012, which proves, I guess that Baylor's been Intentionally Christian before Intentionally Christian was cool.) I loved that you could be open about being a Christian and find friends and interests which shared that common ground. I left there with the impression that Baylor was a good, safe place for me to find out who I truly was and to become that person. That security--with the freedom to still test your bounds--was so invaluable to me as a person.

I loved Baylor's history and the rich sense of tradition that Baylorites are connected to (without being more South Highway 6 cultish about it.) There's a network of alums who will do anything for you just because you're a Baylor alum. It's a shared community that transcends the years. I guess that probably happens at lots of campuses, but for some reason, at a place chartered in 1845 by the Republic of Texas, there are a lot of intervening years and generations that make it seem special.

I hope Solan weighs in on the psychology department, of which he is a grad.

I have never set foot on UNT's campus and I don't know the first thing about it. All I do know is that my Baylor education and the time I spent there is one of the things I treasure most. And the Bible says something about where your treasure is, there your heart is also. There is definitely some of my heart along the banks of the Brazos.


BearChick,

Class of 1999
BA, Journalism and English Professional Writing

El Oso
12-22-06, 05:15 PM
I didnt have gowilde--but it was the Baylor professors who sealed the deal

I went to a college night _UT was my first choice, Michigan my second and LSU my third. I stopped by the Baylor booth--to state it more correctly a student working the table sought me out. I spent a half hour talking to students and a professor--the next day I sent in my app to Baylor only--the rest is history--and I would sell eveything I have except my family to go back to life at Baylor for just one day

Santa Claus
12-22-06, 05:15 PM
WTF?! Wacoso a frat daddy? Which one? And are there blackmail pictures of him in Sing?

This makes me re-evaluate the load of coal idea.

LinuxBear
12-22-06, 06:33 PM
yet again, steak night is ignored.

shame.

- lfs

LinuxBear
12-22-06, 06:36 PM
also, i have only driven by UNT, but i am fairly certain baylor has more vantage points amenable to the would-be long rifle sniper.

just another something to think about.

- th

piratestef
12-22-06, 07:05 PM
Seriously, going Greek isn't a huge deal unless you live in Collins or something.

...which is probably what I should've done instead of being the only person on my hall in Memorial that week. :(

But, nah, Greeks are what, ~20% of the campus? There's plenty of other things to do if that doesn't interest you. I guess one of the things that keeps me here is that it's a big campus with lots to do, but it feels small. Once you're here a little while, it's hard to go anywhere without seeing someone you know.

midgett
12-22-06, 07:37 PM
My neighbor's daughter is a BU freshman and wants to be a teacher. We chat about how financially it makes more sense to attend another school for that degree.

But the difference is the people. I really hope my kids have a college experience similar to mine wherever they go. Often, when a UT friend meets someone new who happened to attend UT, they say hi, make a few comments and that's it forever. Same for some other universities. As someone said above, Baylor seems more like a family. When I meet a fellow BU grad no matter the age there seems to be a connection like I am first meeting a distant cousin. We probably won't stay in touch but we are glad to have met one of the family. Plus, we probably quickly figure out someone we both know based on where we grew up, live now, attend church, work or a combination of all four.

My oldest daughter currently has an interest in teaching. She doesn't show much interest in Baylor but if she does, I'll likely fork over whatever it takes. I'll do it more in the hope she'll have a similar experience to me than for the education degree.

My neighbor is thrilled at how much his daughter is enjoying Baylor. The relationships she's building, the activities she's involved in and all the usual Baylor stuff has her in love with the school. He's getting his money's worth if for no other reason his daughter is very happy.

I hope to get to walk in his shoes one day.

Maxwell's Silver Hammer
12-22-06, 10:34 PM
Of course, college is about preparing you for the workforce after you graduate. But as most college graduates also know, your college experience is a big part of the person that you will become. Now, a residential campus beats the heck out of a predominantly commuter school for all sorts of student life facets. But the one thing I think Baylor will have over UNT is that she is likely to become a better person coming out of Baylor. Those all night sessions BS'ing with friends about really deep thoughts that we grownups find so laughable -- those are huge in the formation of one's character, moral center, values, work ethic, and general approach to life. The interactions with professors overall, but really the handful that really end up affecting the way you think and view life as a whole. The other students whom you see every day and who fill up so much of your non-class hours.

I have degrees from Baylor and from two other major universities (ranked higher than Baylor, not just commuter schools). And as far as I am concerned, there is no other place like Baylor for educating the whole person -- and a lot of it has nothing to do with what happens in your classes. That's why Baylor is worth the extra money.

Ghostrider
12-22-06, 11:20 PM
Also, does UNT have SING?

FuzzyBUMagnet
12-23-06, 12:15 AM
I figure BearChick has it pegged. However, I'm also going to weigh in. I can't make any comparisons to UNT, but I will now give my insights on Baylor.

The people. The people are what attracted me to Baylor. They were so warm and friendly and helpful. Very "Texas," if you ask me. I'm currently spending a week in New York City and New England and am reminded of the differences every minute.

The professors. My father told me horror stories about how professors will take every chance possible to screw you. My experience has been 180 degrees from that. All of my professors (in the business school) do their very best to help you learn the information. I have had many professors invite students over for Thanksgiving and Easter, if they had nowhere else to go. I'm as good a friends with some of my professors as I am with some students. The professors consider their work an investment in your future, and they better than any other place I've ever heard of.

The social life. I am in a fraternity, my girlfriend is not. I came planning to not join a fraternity, but when the time came, it was a no brainer. My girlfriend came planning to join a sorority and elected not to. We are both really happy with our decisions. There are many different opportunities on campus. I would say that maybe 50% of the intramural teams are not greek related. There are a couple of great freshman organizations to get involved in (Freshman Class Council and Freshman Leadership Organization), as well as the Baylor Activities Council and Hall Leadership Teams. Many people also use their church as a semi-social activity and have bible study groups that will get together and grab pizza on the weekends or something. There are a ton of places to get involved, both in and out of the greek realm. Your experience at Baylor is what you make of it.

Financially, Baylor is expensive (understatement of the week). Their academic scholarships are weak compared to other schools. You can't compare a Baylor scholarship with a UNT scholarship in any terms other than percentage of total price. However, every little bit helps. You can get a 500 dollar scholarship for this and a thousand for that from outside sources, etcetera. When you combine those with academic scholarships, interior financial aid, and student loans, you can come up with some creative ways to finance your education. Don't shy away from student loans, either. They are interest free until you graduate and low rate after that. Having $20,000 in student loans in NOTHING like having $20,000 in credit card debt. It is much easier to manage, and they try to work with you. Anyway, I feel the extra cost comes with extra benefits, such as the overall experience.

Finally, my best advice to you is to visit. Visit both UNT and Baylor. Go to a basketball game at each. See how it feels. I visited Baylor on a fluke and knew when I left campus where I wanted to go to school. I cannot stress enough the necessity of visiting campus. Baylor is a great school, and I'm sure that UNT also does very well (some of my Baylor professors even teach there, too!). It all comes down to where you're most comfortable and where your family feels would be best for you. Good luck to you all, and Merry Christmas!

~ Fuzzy

Dorian Gray
12-23-06, 09:23 AM
The world is a great big place...University of Texas would be a good place to start figuring that out. It's a great school (Better than UNT) and if she is accepted, that would probably be the best of her choices. If you and the Mrs. have grounded her in your values, she'll do just fine.

Sounds like a bright girl. I'm sure she'll do well where ever she is. Consider two things:

1. In the first 5 years of your career, your University does matter.
2. Baylor is a waste of money right now, when you can get a better education from a state school for less money.

JGTBH
12-23-06, 11:23 AM
I want you all to know how much we have appreciated your responses. My girl thought it was great to see that others feel the same way towards BU that I do. Rush, Piratstef, HoustonMedBear, BaylorGuy314, Yogi, Baseballjunkie, TXKBear, El Oso, Midgett, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, FuzzyBUMagnet, and Dorian Gray, all of your comments, both pro and con, have been just what I had hoped for when I started this thread.

I want to offer special thanks to gowilde for the unique perspective of a Baylor Professor, and to Bear Chick who post was almost word for word what I had been telling my daughter (I think it meant more to hear coming from a chick though)

LinuxBear is a little scary, although I agree about steak night...Even Sanata was funny, as was BearFan04 (but sorry to say she throws like a girl)

We'd love to hear from more of you about why Baylor is the right choice for 2007.

StatMan
12-23-06, 12:53 PM
If you choose Baylor, it will be one of the best decisions of your life. I will always remember the good times I had as a student back in the 1980s. My social interaction was directly related to mutual interest in Baylor football, and playing tennis on campus. The tradtions at Baylor University made my college experiences so great. :)
The decision to attend Baylor vs. UNT isn't a financial one. It's a heart decision. I would not trade my years at Baylor for any pile of money. The cumulative experience was worth any extra dollars I spent there. Folks have touched on some of the aspects that I loved about Baylor. Wilde spoke of the affinity professors have for students and the "in loco parentis" atmosphere. I loved this. I knew my professors knew their stuff. I deeply appreciated the fact that they also knew me as a person. I could go in a professor's office just to talk--and I did--or to get help with my school work. There are professors that I still talk to from time to time.

I did not choose to go Greek while I was there and I never felt like I missed out on a thing. I had plenty of friends, Greek and non-Greek. I worked throughout school in the Theatre department and made friends there. I made friends at church. I made friends through volunteer opportunities I took advantage of. She will be able to join large organizations which are not Greek, but where she can form those same strong friendships. My husband was in a fraternity at Baylor, and wouldn't change that either. So, if she does change her mind and decide to join a sorority, she would be happy doing that too. As in life, you make as many friends as you choose to put in the effort for.

I loved Baylor's Christian atmosphere (and this was pre-2012, which proves, I guess that Baylor's been Intentionally Christian before Intentionally Christian was cool.) I loved that you could be open about being a Christian and find friends and interests which shared that common ground. I left there with the impression that Baylor was a good, safe place for me to find out who I truly was and to become that person. That security--with the freedom to still test your bounds--was so invaluable to me as a person.

I loved Baylor's history and the rich sense of tradition that Baylorites are connected to (without being more South Highway 6 cultish about it.) There's a network of alums who will do anything for you just because you're a Baylor alum. It's a shared community that transcends the years. I guess that probably happens at lots of campuses, but for some reason, at a place chartered in 1845 by the Republic of Texas, there are a lot of intervening years and generations that make it seem special.

I hope Solan weighs in on the psychology department, of which he is a grad.

I have never set foot on UNT's campus and I don't know the first thing about it. All I do know is that my Baylor education and the time I spent there is one of the things I treasure most. And the Bible says something about where your treasure is, there your heart is also. There is definitely some of my heart along the banks of the Brazos.


BearChick,

Class of 1999
BA, Journalism and English Professional Writing

Santa Claus
12-23-06, 02:19 PM
also, i have only driven by UNT, but i am fairly certain baylor has more vantage points amenable to the would-be long rifle sniper.

just another something to think about.

- th

That spire on Old Main is just one big chimney, Linux.

Damn straight I see you when you're going to class, too. Ho ho ho! Bonus points if you trip on the quad and fall on your face. That makes ole Santy laugh from up in his perch.

Santa Claus
12-23-06, 02:22 PM
Also, does UNT have SING?

If I hear one more comment about which frat looks better in tights, I swear, I'm gonna give all the participants a truckload of coal this year, ho ho ho.

It's a neat show to watch, but...damn. All the "my frat is better than your frat!!1" bickering on this board sure puts UNT in a better light. Luckily, I think such overzealous morons are in the minority of Sing participants. It was nice to see Sing Alliance kick some ass sans a lot of smack last year, too.

Then again, if Kappa goes with the flowy skirts this year and does a lot of twirling around again...Santa's putting in for front row tickets. Hohohooooo boy!

The other good thing I've heard about UNT is that their music program is amazing--if she ever thinks about minoring or switching to major in music, theirs is a lot better than Baylor's BUSOM. Plus, those chicas can toot my horn any time...

But aside from that, really, go with Baylor. Baylor chicks are so much hotter it's not even funny. Unless she wants to be the hottest one on campus...haha, go here.

JGTBH
01-05-07, 04:01 PM
Well, we are headed to Sic 'em Day on 1/15 and to visit with Financial Aide the next day...After reading this thread, Baylor is now her number one choice, but she also said that if she gets her heart set on it and then we can't afford it she is going to kick my butt.

Fingers crossed and Sic 'em Bears!

baylorbudd
01-05-07, 04:55 PM
Well, we are headed to Sic 'em Day on 1/15 and to visit with Financial Aide the next day...After reading this thread, Baylor is now her number one choice, but she also said that if she gets her heart set on it and then we can't afford it she is going to kick my butt.

Fingers crossed and Sic 'em Bears!

Glad to hear that your daughter loved Baylor, I definitely cherished my time there and it sounds like your daughter will as well. Personally I enjoyed Baylor for its holistic approach on education...academically, spiritually, physically, socially, and culturally. Sure Baylor is not the best academic institution in the US nor is it the best university for every person to go to. I don't recommend Baylor to every potential college student because many do not fit into Baylor's unique approach to learning. Moreover, a person has to accept the fact that Baylor is a Baptist school and that there are certain restrictions and expectations of its students. I only say this because I get mad when students cry and moan about the school's drinking policy and other rules...don't like them, don't attend. Baylor does not try to hide its position on many controversial issues, so people should not cry foul when the administration takes an adverse stance on those issues.

Other reasons include feeling comfortable with fitting in with the student body as whole as well as the overall Baylor Community "feel." When I was looking at schools I really wanted to go to a medium sized school...where I wouldn't be lost in a sea of people, but also be in a position where there is still some form of anonymity among the students. Baylor is also a very active community; if you are reclusive and antisocial, Baylor is not a school for you. Whether it was hanging out at the gym, running the Bear Trail, or participating in Stepping Out, I enjoyed the fact that it was difficult to live a sedentary lifestyle as a Baylor student.

Additionally, the professors at Baylor were amazing. Yes there are a number of bad apples, but for the most part I was very happy with the academics I engaged with. I still correspond with a number of my former professors and they have been great at giving recommendations as well as advice on life.

Yes there is a large Greek presence at Baylor, but there are many more extracurricular organizations to participate in. I was in a fraternity and I am very happy with my decision to join; I had great experiences and have many lifelong friends. These are only a few of the many reasons why I chose Baylor and why I am glad I am a Baylor graduate. Currently I am a law student at SMU and I can see a night and day differences between the two undergraduates even though both are close in size and image. I have been to UNT once, but I never researched the school so I have no real basis of comparison between the two. I can say that I did not feel the same collegiate vibe on the UNT campus like Baylor, but that is really a personal feeling.

I was in the same position as your daughter financially, both of my parents were money-strapped and I had to rely on scholarships to get to Baylor. I received the Provost scholarship, but your daughter has a higher SAT score than myself so she might receive the Presidential scholarship. Depending on your financial situation, your daughter might receive the Texas Equalization Scholarship and/or the Pell Grant (Baylor financial services will let you know if you qualify). She can also apply to the Community Wal-Mart scholarship, but it most be postmarked by January 12th (I received a similar scholarship before I attended Baylor): CLICK HERE FOR APPLICATION (http://www.walmartfoundation.org/wmstore/goodworks/scripts/Education.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0012674673.11680371 93@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdaddimidhffecfkfcfkjdgoodglh.0&oid=-10260&coid=-10883).
Finally, know that there are additional scholarships she can receive as a Baylor student after her first semester. I also received the Student Foundation Scholarship and another scholarship as a Foreign Language Minor.

Hope this helps. Good luck to you and your daughter!

BaylorGuy314
01-05-07, 04:59 PM
Good luck JGTBH.

I hope all goes well. The biggest disadvantage to Baylor is the price tag. It is $9k/year more to go here (on average, sometimes more, sometimes less) than most public schools. That is a considerable price to pay and not everyone can afford to do it.

If she (or you) decide Baylor's not right, that's ok. I hope you become a BU fan in the future anyways.

And I hope your daughter will remember that the most important part of getting an education is not how well you are taught, but how willing you are to learn. Anyone could get a college-level eduation by going to the public library and reading all day, every day.

The professors will help give you a more well-rounded education and help you to understand and apply what you are learning, but if you don't have the will, then it's wasted time and money.

Hope all goes well. Let us know.

Solan=Christ!!!
01-05-07, 05:37 PM
Just saw this thread. If you guys would like a tour of the Psych department while you're here, send me a PM. I'd be happy to help out.

Bexar Fan
01-05-07, 05:55 PM
My daughter is a 2006 BU grad and my son is currently a Junior. Both have repeated expressed their thanks for the opportunity to learn academically and "learn to live" at Baylor.

My daughter, though shy, found many non-greek activities where she was warmly welcomed and richly rewarded for the experiences. My son, less shy, has also found activities both in and out of a fraternity to his liking.

Both found academics to be challenging and are better adults because of the successful track records they have achieved. Though the financial costs are high the rewards of watching your child grow in such a nurturing environment are well worth whatever gymnastics you may have perform financially.
As others have said, I too have found the finacial aid programs available to be a tremendous help.

Some comment has been made about religious fervor of some students and/or faculty, as well as some reference to snobbery. Neither of my children have found either to be obstacles in making friendships or building strong, probably lifelong relationships.

If I had to make the series of decisions again as to where I wanted my kids to go to college, I would choose Baylor again in a heartbeat. My kids have said many times they would too!

El Mariachi
01-05-07, 06:37 PM
Baylor kicks ass. That is all.

Seriously, as an accounting major...it really helped to have professors that took time to know you personally. Hell, I still see Mike Cassell at basketball games and speak to him. And I once ran into Suzanne Abbe at Fiesta Texas (one of the most random things to ever happen to me) and she introduced me to her family and we all sat and ate lunch.

I bet you couldn't do that kind of stuff if you went to UNT. My $.02.

I left Baylor in 2005 with a BBA and a Masters in Accounting.

Yogi
01-05-07, 06:41 PM
Just saw this thread. If you guys would like a tour of the Psych department while you're here, send me a PM. I'd be happy to help out.

I think you mean "Psych ward"...

LTbear
01-07-07, 09:41 PM
JGTBH:

I'm a Baylor student, green n' gold to the core, and I doubt I can add too much that hasn't already been said. I think I can add some thoughts though because my parents as well as about 50% of the rest fo my family are UNT grads.

Every time my parents visit Baylor, they comment on how much they wish UNT had been more like BU for them. The people - professors, advisors, students, et al - leave them with such an impression; they always comment on how Baylor is full of so many "good people." While UNT has many great people, my parents both readily comment on, generally, how much more helpful everyone in the administration and faculty is here as compared to UNT.

They also always point out how much more Baylor is as a college experience. The amount of activities is overwhelmingly vast compared to what was offered them at UNT, os that is currently offered to my cousins who now attend UNT. As a result Baylor is not just a school you attend but a place you love and feel connected to. I told someone who didn't understand this once that my freshman year, Baylor became my university, but by sophomore year it had become, in every sense, my home.

One more thing, my parents also comment, after meetings many professors, that they feel they would have gotten a much better education here. But that is hard to know.

In any case, hope this helps.

JGTBH
01-26-07, 10:45 AM
well, since Waco was closed due to ice for MLK day, we are trying again tomorrow! Everybody light a candle, bang a gong, send up a prayer...Financial Aide says they won't know anything till March 1....sigh

nein51
01-26-07, 11:02 AM
JG - after having done it, I wouldnt do it again. One thing I have learned hiring people is that where your degree comes from doesnt REALLY mean much (unless it is Ivy League or Stanford, Duke, etc). Having a degree is the important thing. When I graduated I owed something like 85+K dollars in student loans. That was 7 years ago and I STILL owe them money. If you have to take out loans really give serious thought about going somewhere you wont have to. That is the downside (and it is a MASSIVE downside).

On the plus side the class sizes at BU are pretty small and the campus is really nice, sort of reminiscent of the NE schools. The people are great. I had some of the same feelings of the one posters daughter, I hated the in your face religious folks but I didnt go to BU because it was a Baptist school, some others really like that aspect.

I wish you the best and for all the downside I might end up moving back and starting my MBA soon enough.

The $
01-26-07, 01:12 PM
If money isn't an issue or you think your daughter will get some significant scholarships, it's a no-brainer. GO TO BAYLOR!

However, if you're financially strapped, it's really not worth it. I think a few other people mentioned this, but if Baylor is too expensive, look into UT Austin. I sometimes regret not going there myself just because it has an amazing business school and the social scene is about 1billion times more fun.

As far as her not wanting to go greek. That's not a big deal at all. Maybe it used to be back in the day. I'm in a fraternity and it's the main reason I like Baylor and didn't transfer. But I'm guessing your daughter is very different from me and I'm very different from most of Baylor. She'll probably fit in here.

deltbear
01-26-07, 04:17 PM
JGTBH, with your daughter getting a 1250 on the SAT that will get her atleast $6000 if not more off, you ought to make sure she checks out the scholarship options. I know I made the 6000 dollars over 4 year cut.

nein51
01-26-07, 05:48 PM
JGTBH, with your daughter getting a 1250 on the SAT that will get her atleast $6000 if not more off, you ought to make sure she checks out the scholarship options. I know I made the 6000 dollars over 4 year cut.My score was higher than that, I graduated 4th in my class and had a 32 on the ACT...it got me not a single dime.

groverbabyBU
01-26-07, 06:08 PM
My score was higher than that, I graduated 4th in my class and had a 32 on the ACT...it got me not a single dime.
We also went to school a few more years ago, nein. :)

RD2WINAGNBEAR86
01-26-07, 06:11 PM
My Daughter has been accepted to every school she has applied to for the fall of 2007. She is top 20% of her class and made a 1250 SAT. She wants to major in Psychology, but I could see that changing many times between now and 2012. I kind of thought she would end up at Texas, but she got scarred by how big it is. She has now narrowed her choices to Baylor and North Texas. I'm a teacher and my wife is a secretary, so college anywhere is going to be a financial pain in the butt for our family.

She would like to know what makes Baylor worth the extra $25,000 a year?

I'll hang up and listen...

The size of Texas and Texas A & M were scary for me as well. Also, Waco was 150 miles from my hometown. I could "go away" to college yet I was a
2 1/2 hour drive from home. This may make you laugh, but I also wanted to play football for the Baylor Bears. They had a good solid football program and I wanted nothing more than to be a part of it. I have no regrets. I am very proud of my Baylor education.

RD2 :headache:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86
01-26-07, 06:16 PM
1250? I made that in the sixth grade. Seriously.

"Don't let your books get in the way of your education".
-Mark Twain

I take it that you are probably not a salesman.

RD2 :headache:

deltbear
01-26-07, 07:04 PM
btw my cousin made a 2250 on the SAT out of 2400 though which is extremely good and got a 40,000 dollar scholarship to baylor. I only got a 1820 out of 2400 which got me 6000 dollars

Allie Holcomb
01-26-07, 07:19 PM
JGTBH's Wife here.

The sorority system is actually one of the things that turns her off. She considers herself the antithesis of a "clique person", preferring to float in and out of a multitude of interest groups. Because Baylor IS so steeped in greek culture, I wonder if she wouldn't flounder there. Is there really anything for an "independent" young lady at Baylor? Or would she find herself out in the cold socially?

This issue might have already been addressed, but I think the majority of student's are NOT in the greek system. I think it can seem that way, but in reality most are involved in just different organizations, etc. FLO (Freshman Leadership Organization) and FCC (Freshman Class Council) are two neat organizations for her first year. Student Foundation is fabulous to be in as an upperclassman. There are a ton of other organizations as well, but those are some to name a few.

My strongest advice would be for her to not live in Collins freshman year. The majority of that dorm does seem to go through RUSH, and personally, I think it could be hard if you didn't.

JGTBH
01-26-07, 07:38 PM
Thank you all again for your input and advice. To me you are what makes Baylor the greatest place on earth.

I'm Just Glad To Be Here!

Sic 'em Bears!

Waco Lions
01-26-07, 09:07 PM
My daughter, thought it was OK but was really turned off about the in-your-face religious remarks by some of the more agressive types and she thought that a lot of the girls were snobs.

I'm graduating in May, and I've honestly never felt like someone was being in my face about Christianity. I have always known the option was there, but I never felt forced to do it or that people would look down on me if I slept in on Sundays.
One of the guys with the rolly cross talked to me one day, and I told him I was jewish, which I'm not, but it was hilarious because he was so caught off guard by it.

And the Greek thing isn't a big deal to anyone but the Greek people. Which is kinda the same as the business school people. Not a big deal unless you're in it. I've got a lot of good friends in greek, and a lot out of it.

Another great thing about Baylor is that when you get fully emersed in your major, it really becomes like a family-type atmosphere. I've spent many a late nights in Castellaw working on various things, mainly the paper, and I've even gotten to know the janitorial staff pretty well.

The folks I know who went to UNT have all had the same experience, which is pretty much, "Yeah, it was alright." But they are smart, good people just like Baylor people.

And Texas isn't a bad choice at all. I think Baylor and UT have a whole lot more in common than people realize as far as the type of people/intelligence level goes. And the gomers in college station and the rednecks at TTU are a whole different breed.

JGTBH
01-29-07, 10:05 AM
She had a great time, and canceled her visit to NT. She really enjoyed talking to a couple of current freshmen in Memorial and is now interested in the Honors College. I don't really know anything about it. What is the scoop on this?

BaylorGuy314
01-29-07, 10:48 AM
She had a great time, and canceled her visit to NT. She really enjoyed talking to a couple of current freshmen in Memorial and is now interested in the Honors College. I don't really know anything about it. What is the scoop on this?

It is a great program. I'll let someone else expand on it more since I wasn't in it, but I knew several people that were involved and they were glad they did it.

From what I understand, the classes are even smaller than Baylor's already small classes and are a bit more indepth because of that fact. This helps breed a great work environment and really brings the Honor College students closer together since she'll get more repeat classmates than the average students. (In other words, she's more likely to have a lot of the same people in her classes from semester to semester.)

I do know that there is an increased workload as more is expected of the Honors College students, but this isn't always a bad things as long as she has good time management (which she will quickly learn in the program).

piratestef
01-29-07, 10:50 AM
She had a great time, and canceled her visit to NT. She really enjoyed talking to a couple of current freshmen in Memorial and is now interested in the Honors College. I don't really know anything about it. What is the scoop on this?

Which program? Heck, I'm still in Memorial and I'm going on my third year here. It's a great place to live and a really active community. Yesterday we had a HC-LLC community dinner that was pretty neat--a bunch of profs came and it was free food catered in. Heck, it beat buying dinner on a Sunday night. There's also always speakers, movie nights (there's a super bowl watching party coming up), bible study groups, Dr Pepper Hours...all kinds of stuff going on. It's been fun. (Plus...suite bathrooms. And a building that actually has some kind of history. Pretty sweet.)

Rumor has it, they're adding more faculty offices and meeting space pretty soon in the downstairs (I know at least the faculty partner for the building, Sarah-Jane Murray, plans to move in an office somewhere). There's a prof-in-residence right now over in Alexander--Dr. Wang (he's in the BIC and has a lot of awesome stories about life in China). They're also planning on renovating the old chapel-turned Theta meeting room-turned empty space on the third floor back into a chapel, which is going to be cool because I've broken in there and seen old photos of it in its chapel days and it's a gorgeous space. Plus, they're getting some new furniture (in the same antique style but less worse-for-wear) for the lobby sometime soon.

I'm really really biased towards the BIC because it seems to have the least fluff with it, plus I've had a great time in the BIC. It's a close-knit program, and if she does end up in Memorial, it's pretty easy to find other folks in your core classes if you have homework questions or need to organize study groups. It's also the only HC program that doesn't require you to write a thesis at the end, which works out well for me since I'm gonna have to deal with law school apps later on. I've had friends in the other programs who really liked the thesis, liked getting feedback on their work, and liked getting to study something that interests them in detail like that. It really depends on what your daughter wants to do, but yeah...I've been part of the "Honors College Living and Learning Center" from its first year and I'd recommend it to just about anybody.

gowilde
01-29-07, 11:54 AM
She had a great time, and canceled her visit to NT. She really enjoyed talking to a couple of current freshmen in Memorial and is now interested in the Honors College. I don't really know anything about it. What is the scoop on this?

JGTBH--I teach two courses in the BIC (Baylor Interdisciplinary Core) which is in the Honors College. It admits 200 students each fall. Students follow core requirements the first 2 years, then select a major and work in their chosen discipline.

I've been teaching in the BIC since 1996 and love it. The students (like Stef) are incredibly bright and motivated. Each class forms close friendships. Heck, have your daughter look at all the facebook entries by BICers on facebook. They do everything together.

If you or your daughter have questions about the BIC, just let me know. (Send me a PM, and I can respond to you via email.)

BossRossBear
01-29-07, 01:47 PM
If it makes you feel better, my wife's parents decided to stop funding her college education after her sophomomre year at Baylor; as a result, we have been paying off more than $50K for more than eight years now (nearly $500 every month). While I resent the ever living crap out of my in-laws for putting us in this position (their first two kids went to Baylor and USC, respectively, and have less than $5K in loans), I would not change a thing. My wife and I had a great time at Baylor--so much so, in fact, that we got married on campus. Anyway, my point is that I would not let money deter you from pursuing an education at Baylor.

hubba hubba bu
01-29-07, 02:57 PM
jg,


the question you are asking would likely not have come up if sloan hadn't convinced the board of rejects to raise tuition to its current ridiculous rates.

sloan and the board changed baylor forever. this is a question that not only you face, but hundreds of others: is baylor really worth the years of debt to get a bu degree?

unt is a good school and has a solid reputation in the dfw area. baylor has always had a good reputation. the difference is that before sloan, it would not have been a question at all -- you could probably send your kids to bu and still easily manage the slightly higher cost. it's been adios and sayonara to that era for several years now.

only you and your child can make this decision. the board has priced the middle class away from baylor -- forever, and they still don't seem to get it. sad, very sad.

JGTBH
01-29-07, 02:57 PM
BIC is what caught her eye, but we don't know enough about it yet. How does it work as far as credits? When do you start work in your major? Do you have to live in Memorial? Does it limit your interaction with the rest of the student body?

Yogi
01-29-07, 03:20 PM
If the BIC program isn't a fit, you might try the NOZE program.

It is unique to Baylor and will guarantee free rif raff and flirts at Scruff's.

JGTBH
01-29-07, 04:27 PM
are women allowed to be NOZE?

gowilde
01-29-07, 04:56 PM
BIC is what caught her eye, but we don't know enough about it yet. How does it work as far as credits? When do you start work in your major? Do you have to live in Memorial? Does it limit your interaction with the rest of the student body?

Stef and other BICers can answer your questions "from the inside," as it were. First year is completely required courses in the BIC. Second year MAINLY courses in the BIC. Years three and four are in the major.

Students, including BICers, declare a major in the second semester of sophomore year. Whether in the BIC or in the general curriculum, all BU students need 124 hours to graduate. (Check me on this number. It's right around 125.)

She'd want to live in Memorial b/c it's the HC dorm. But I'm not certain. She might be able to live in another dorm w/ HC approval.

Absolutely not. BU's an open, all-inclusive campus. BICers have friends outside the BIC and vice versa. Almost all the posters to this thread have commented on the family-like atmosphere. I've been here a long time and can affirm that BU is family. (Sometimes we're dysfunctional, but that's another story. LOL!)

JGTBH
01-29-07, 05:28 PM
Absolutely not. BU's an open, all-inclusive campus. BICers have friends outside the BIC and vice versa. Almost all the posters to this thread have commented on the family-like atmosphere. I've been here a long time and can affirm that BU is family. (Sometimes we're dysfunctional, but that's another story. LOL!)

I wasn't think so much of an academic aristocracy, as I was the fact that the BIC all live in the same dorm and go to the same classes...that seems like it might make it harder to meet people outside of that group.

piratestef
01-29-07, 05:36 PM
BIC is what caught her eye, but we don't know enough about it yet. How does it work as far as credits? When do you start work in your major? Do you have to live in Memorial? Does it limit your interaction with the rest of the student body?

It actually requires less core credits than a regular degree plan--since the classes are interdisciplinary and combine different subjects, it squishes them together and you actually spend less time on the caca that's not in your major than everybody else but still get to cover a little bit of everything. Not a bad plan.

You can start work on your major any time--there's three BIC courses right off, but usually, you get started with an intro course in your major right away or some of the other requirements that BIC can't take care of (math, foreign language, etc.--that all depends on your degree plan).

You don't have to live in Memorial for any of the honors college programs--it's just kind of a cool option. It kind of feels like a bubble of "honors people" for a while, which I regretted when I went through rush (I didn't know anyone else there :(), but once I started getting involved in stuff outside the honors dorm/BIC, it was a pretty cool place to be. Memorial and Alexander are a tight-knit community that's great to call home, and there's plenty of things to get involved in right away (FCC, social/swing dance, groups relating to your major, journey groups/church groups, student gov't., etc., etc.) that connect you with the rest of the campus. If she's looking into doing things outside of class, it doesn't feel isolated at all.

re: NoZe--that's definitely not an honors college program...more like special ed. But there's chicks in it now, to answer your question.

gowilde
01-29-07, 05:47 PM
I wasn't think so much of an academic aristocracy, as I was the fact that the BIC all live in the same dorm and go to the same classes...that seems like it might make it harder to meet people outside of that group.

Collins is next to Memorial. Common Grounds (local coffee/tea hangout) is just down the block. The guys in Alexander will want to know ALL the girls in Memorial and Collins. Alexander's on the other side of Memorial.

Never fear, JGTBH. If your daughter wants to meet and mingle, she'll have endless opportunities.

FTR, there are maybe 10-12 common courses in the BIC. The rest are regular course offerings.

Go to Baylor's homepage and click on the Honors College link. Then click on BIC. You can get the spiel right there.

piratestef
01-29-07, 05:52 PM
Oh, and the honors dorm is just an option--you could live anywhere you want and still participate in the BIC, though. I probably wouldn't go into Brooks because they've got their own little pseudo-honors-college-program thing going on and it's geared towards the folks in that program who want to live together, I probably wouldn't go into North Village or Brooks Flats because it's so much harder to get to know people on your hall in the apartment settings, and I probably wouldn't do Collins unless you're interested in going through rush, IMHO. Housing applications and honors program apps are separate things entirely--aside from the odd semi-great-texts program in Brooks, no program requires its participants to live in any certain place.

Yogi
01-29-07, 06:59 PM
are women allowed to be NOZE?

I think you are confusing the NOZE with Chamber.

It would probably be up to the Lorde Mayor and she'd still have to go under the title of "Brother."

Allie Holcomb
01-29-07, 08:41 PM
are women allowed to be NOZE?

Yes, one of my female friends was in it. She was actually Grand or Lord Mayor (I can't remember the title now b/c it's been awhile) when she was a senior. :)

Solan=Christ!!!
01-30-07, 01:18 AM
BIC is a great program. You're welcome to PM me for more information.