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  1. #1

    Big 12, Big 14, Big 16

    I am just throwing it out there......

    Big 12

    North (old Big Eight - 2)
    1. Iowa State
    2. Kansas
    3. Kansas State
    4. Missouri
    5. Oklahoma
    6. Oklahoma State

    South
    1. Air Force
    2. Baylor
    3. BYU (replacing one cult for another? Whoop!) sorry, had to throw that in.
    4. TCU
    5. Texas
    6. Texas Tech




    Big 14

    North
    1. Missouri
    2. Iowa State
    3. Kansas
    4. Kansas State
    5. Oklahoma
    6. Oklahoma State
    7. Navy (2nd service academy, decent football)

    South
    1. Air Force
    2. Baylor
    3. BYU
    4. TCU
    5. Texas
    6. Texas Tech
    7. Fresno State (West Coast exposure; solid football and baseball programs)


    Big 16

    North
    1. Missouri
    2. Navy
    3. Iowa State
    4. Kansas
    5. Kansas State
    6. Oklahoma
    7. Oklahoma State
    8. Boise State (wouldn't you watch the OU vs Boise State game each year on TV?)

    South
    1. Air Force
    2. Baylor
    3. BYU
    4. TCU
    5. Texas
    6. Texas Tech
    7. Fresno State (West Coast exposure; solid football and baseball programs)
    8. Army (NY market and tri-fecta on service academies)


    Hindsight 20/20....if they only had vision of the future about super conferences in the 90's. We could have been close to 20 with just combining Big 8 and SWC

    Big/Great 17

    1. Nebraska
    2. Colorado
    3. Missouri
    4. Kansas
    5. Kansas State
    6. Oklahoma
    7. Oklahoma State
    8. Iowa State
    9. Baylor
    10. Houston
    11. Texas
    12. Texas A&M
    13. Texas Tech
    14. TCU
    15. Rice
    16. SMU
    17. Arkansas
    Last edited by BU Believer; 09-22-11 at 10:09 PM.

  2. #2
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    expansion without raiding the Big East would be foolish.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Hambone420 View Post
    expansion without raiding the Big East would be foolish.
    TCU doesn't count

    WVU, UCONN, USF, Cinncy, Louisville? would be nice, but WVU I thought was potential SEC, UCONN and Rutgers pursuing ACC. How much support nationwide do you think service academies would get? Veterans across the country and those that support our military. New York, Maryland, and Colorado are where those schools are located.

  4. #4
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    anything that suggests the Big 12 would ever expand beyond 12 is just dumb! And just because a school is located in NY or is on the west coast, that doesn't mean they are delivering the NY market or delivering west coast exposure. Nobody outside of the valley gives a crap about Fresno St. And not to be unpatriotic, but nobody cares about Army football, or Navy football, despite Navy's recent successes. They will be in the Big East anyway, and nobody will give a crap about the Big East in 2 years (when the current BCS contract runs out) when they lose their AQ status (if it doesn't happen sooner). Having 14 or 16 teams doesn't make you a stronger conference if you get to there by adding crap, which is the only thing available. It would only weaken the Big 12 if they expanded beyond 12. And if you wanna be serious about going to 12, replace AF with Louisville.

    Let's get real people.

  5. #5
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    well said 44.....
    Big12 must expand in near future but they must get solid programs to be a strong, stable conference. you dont add a school just to arrive at a #.

  6. #6
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    In future conference blowups, and there's no reason to think they won't continue unless the fundamental business structure of college football changes, it might be nice to have an academy or 2 in your conference. Lots of posters, self-identified as fans of BE schools on BE boards, think so.

    Reason: who wants to explain to a Congressional committee why your BCS employer or client pulled AQ status from a service academy? Particularly AFA and Navy who play pretty salty football.

  7. #7
    I agree with 44 about bubeliever's list. I disagree about thinking going to 14 is bad. I think adding BYU, Cincy, Louisville, TCU, and WVU would put our conference on about the level of the current SEC and ACC in terms strength of conference.

  8. #8
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    You have to throw common sense out the window when looking at this stuff. Yes, 10-12 is the best model from a competitive and fan POV. However, as we have learned painfully, this is about money. When you look at it from that perspective, then there's no other answer than to go to 16 or more. Consolidation of the product increases the demand and the dollars the networks will have to pay. Thus why going to 14 or 16 teams in the near future could equal a more substantial windfall for the conference.

    I hate, hate, HATE the concept of the super conferences. I think 10 is the right number. However, the reality is that it's all moving to super conferences. We see what happens when you sit around and let it all go down around you. The Big 12 can't be caught lagging behind again.

    And as for the TV markets, it's how the TV executives view them. Not casual fans. Yes, it's nuts to think Rutgers delivers the NYC market, but the execs think otherwise and they're the ones doling out the cash. You hear commissioners talk about having a "presence" in a market. It's why Rutgers is in play for the ACC and B1G and Big 12. They all want a presence in that NYC market.

    It makes no sense I know. From a fan perspective it's insane. From a business perspective it's a no-brainer.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BU Believer View Post
    TCU doesn't count

    WVU, UCONN, USF, Cinncy, Louisville? would be nice, but WVU I thought was potential SEC, UCONN and Rutgers pursuing ACC. How much support nationwide do you think service academies would get? Veterans across the country and those that support our military. New York, Maryland, and Colorado are where those schools are located.
    The military has a huge presence in San Antonio (Military City USA), with Fort Sam Houston, Camp Bullis, Randolph AFB, Lackland AFB and the BRAC expansion of the Army medical facilities. The Army high school all-star game is played annually in the Alamodome. The Corpus Christi Naval Air Station is only two hours from SA. 60,000 soldiers at Ft Hood are in easy driving distance to Waco, Austin, SA, DFW and even Lubbock.

  10. #10
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    We add what quality we can now and watch closely. I think the biggest wrench in the super conferences may be that the number of teams being left out will only grow. There are other UConn's coming. Big state schools that are building up in football. ECU, UCF, USF, UTSA, etc. 5 years from now the landscape will look completely different. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a school like UTSA be more coveted than say, UH.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ski8103 View Post
    We add what quality we can now and watch closely. I think the biggest wrench in the super conferences may be that the number of teams being left out will only grow. There are other UConn's coming. Big state schools that are building up in football. ECU, UCF, USF, UTSA, etc. 5 years from now the landscape will look completely different. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a school like UTSA be more coveted than say, UH.
    This is why I wasn't completely against building a Texas/Florida branded conference with UH, TCU, SMU, UTSA, and maybe Rice and pair it with UCF, USF, FIU and maybe FAU as the foundation of a new conference. It does not look like much, but it would have 7-8 schools, up to 5 that are very large, in the two biggest recruiting hotbeds in the nation. Those state schools are going to be putting out a lot of alumni in the near future. That's not a bad thing. I know to most that looks like Conference USA quality, but most of those schools are dedicated to winning in football. Put quality on the field, build your alumni base and see if the money follows.

    My main problem with UTSA, UCF, USF, FIU and FAU isn't their program or the schools necessarily. It's the branding. If they were to re-brand themselves with a better name they would probably be a lot more attractive. I'd be a lot more interested in adding something like William B. Travis Univesity (part of the Univerisity of Texas system) that has over 30k students in the middle of San Antonio than UTSA. There's something about schools that aren't one of the two brand name schools in a state that make them less attractive name wise.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewVision View Post
    There's something about schools that aren't one of the two brand name schools in a state that make them less attractive name wise.
    You mean like UCLA? We have Sam Houston, SFA and Sul Ross and those brands don't really whoosh up a lot of skirts. Directional names don't really bring the heat either. Maybe something that looks like Rutgers, Stanford or Clemson? Since the state now has rights to the name "Alamo", we could go with Alamo University or University of the Alamo?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
    You mean like UCLA? We have Sam Houston, SFA and Sul Ross and those brands don't really whoosh up a lot of skirts. Directional names don't really bring the heat either. Maybe something that looks like Rutgers, Stanford or Clemson? Since the state now has rights to the name "Alamo", we could go with Alamo University or University of the Alamo?
    Alamo Univerity does sound better than UTSA to me. Maybe it's just that you rarely see Cal written as UC. Any of the other UT schools just seem like a smaller version of UT, even though many of them (like UTSA) boast enrollments much larger than many flagship start universities around the country. Same with UCF and USF, two of the top ten largest schools in the nation. Most people wouldn't associate a directional school with 56k students in downtown Orlando or 46k students in Tampa. Those are huge numbers that have hundreds of thousands of alumni.

    Branding is a big part of the game, and directional schools have a difficult time getting around it. Like I said, I'm ecstatic that the Big12 seems to be on life support again, but we could have done worse than to associate ourselves with some of the largest (and growing) schools in the nation in two of the deepest football recruiting hotbeds in the nation. It's just that very few people respect the names of those schools, even with decent athletic programs.

  14. #14
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    I live a few miles from the UCF campus. They are happy with their brand. When I visit the grocery stores, Targets, Wal-marts, ect... in the greater Orlando area UCF merchandise is front and center. Yeah the UF and FSU stuff is there to but it's off to side and their is a lot less of it.

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    NewVision

    I think you see some of the same things that I do. Despite all this LHN network talk, it wasn't the foremost reason for the PAC not wanting to expand right now. They are taking the long view knowing that in 6-10 years there will be schools within there current sphere of influence that meet their academic standards and geographical sanity. When the time comes to expand to 16, they will have better suited choices than they have today. Sames goes for the B12. They need to get to 12 and then wait. Maybe 10 years down the road UTSA has done what's necessary or Texas State. Perhaps even as A&M's Chancellor claimed this week, Texas A&M at San Antonio "will become the largest campus in the A&M system." You just never know who will be a peach to pick. I think the ACC needs to do something similar and see what becomes of UNC-Charlotte's program after it starts up in 2013.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Bear View Post
    I live a few miles from the UCF campus. They are happy with their brand. When I visit the grocery stores, Targets, Wal-marts, ect... in the greater Orlando area UCF merchandise is front and center. Yeah the UF and FSU stuff is there to but it's off to side and their is a lot less of it.
    It's just a personal thing for me. National perception of a directional school is hard to get out of people's heads. It wasn't until a couple years ago that I found out how big UCF/USF was. Your typical football fan would never make the connection of the size or resources those schools actually have because many associate directional schools with smaller schools/not as good schools.

  17. #17
    I wonder how long until this University of Central Texas that was founded a couple of years ago and located down in Temple takes off and starts an athletic program etc.

  18. #18
    The military schools viewership is a lot higher than you think, Army is in the top 10 in the NY market for viewership. Heres a pretty good read on the college tv landscape.

    http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/201...ignment-chaos/

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KsigCowboy View Post
    The military schools viewership is a lot higher than you think, Army is in the top 10 in the NY market for viewership. Heres a pretty good read on the college tv landscape.

    http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/201...ignment-chaos/
    http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx284/TheWacoKidd/omgwtf.gif?t=1316641716

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewVision View Post
    It's just a personal thing for me. National perception of a directional school is hard to get out of people's heads. It wasn't until a couple years ago that I found out how big UCF/USF was. Your typical football fan would never make the connection of the size or resources those schools actually have because many associate directional schools with smaller schools/not as good schools.
    A few years of winning on a campus of 56,000 students would change a lot of that.

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