Sam Lowry said:
whiterock said:
Sam Lowry said:
whiterock said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
sombear said:
Redbrickbear said:
sombear said:
Again, the issue is Ukraine v. Russia. and there simply is no comparison when it comes to Christianity. It is night and day.
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Its such a myopic argument
It's NOT a religious war so it does not fundamentally matter to the conflict at hand.
The conflict is over issues of land, spheres of influence, geo-political concerns…even ethnic issues….not religion
(PS as I have show you…with actual polls…their rates of religious attendance are very similar to other orthodox countries
"Only 12 percent of Orthodox Ukrainians report attending church weekly, and this mirrors trends in other parts of Eastern Europe, where religious behavior such as daily prayer and worship attendance is reportedly low compared to the number of followers"
"In Russia just 6 percent of the population…. go to church several times a month")
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2014/02/10/russians-return-to-religion-but-not-to-church/
https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/2023-10/pw_193-mapping_religious_landscape_ukraine.pdf
You're working very hard to lump together Ukraine and Russian Christianity, but there is zero comparison.
And you are working hard to pretend Ukraine is some kind of highly religious Christian nation
It's got all the problems of drugs, abortion, prostitution, and corruption that Russia has…and the ultra low rates of weekly church attendance as other Eastern European orthodox majority countries in its area.
[People born in Ukraine accounted for 10.2% (n = 2,338) of all HIV diagnoses reported in EU/EEA countries in 2022]
[Ukraine that was one of the most popular European destinations for sex tourism before the Russian invasion in 2022. According to the Public Health Center run by the Ukrainian government, prostitution was widespread in the country with about 63,000 sex workers before the invasion. According to the Ukrainian Institute for Social Studies, before the outbreak of the Ukrainian crisis in 2014, the largest number of sex workers were in the Kyiv Oblast (about 10 thousand),
Often, underage girls are forced into the world of prostitution. Most often, such girls come from the poorest strata of society. Many of them do not have their own families or their families are socially problematic their parents are addicted to alcohol or drugs. In 2016, about 10% of victims of human trafficking in Ukraine were of adolescent age. About 10% of the teenage population who lived on the streets without their families provided sexual services to other men in exchange for money or food.]
[First, it's necessary to be precise about the scale of the problem. Because corruption is hidden, estimating its scale is always problematic. According to the most widely cited source-the annual ranking of corruption by Transparency International (TI)-Ukraine has scored poorly for decades. As late as 2016, amid major anti-corruption reforms, TI's survey still judged Ukraine to be as corrupt as Russia.]
I fail to see how whether they are religious or not plays into their right to self-govern…
Don't the people in Donbas and Crimea get to self-govern?
They don't want to be part of Ukraine…Kyiv disagreed and send into troops sparking off the Donbas war
Leading to this greater Russo-Ukraine war
You again act like Moscow woke up one day and said "wez gonna take all Ukraine"
This conflict has been in the making since the Orange revolution in 2005
Religion has nothing to do with it..its the geo-political struggle between east and west forces inside the county
Here we go again…
Seccession is a no-no...
Secession is literally how Texas became a country
Secession is literally how the USA became independent
In the modern era, secession is a no-no..
For the record…
We just helped South Sudan break off from Sudan in 2011
And helped East Timor break off from Indonesia in 2002
And none of that applies to Ukraine. Russia just invaded to take what it wanted. There was no serious secessionist effort there. Without Russian sponsorship, there was no conflict at all. The Russian meddling that happened there is the kind of stuff you have to resist most firmly.
"Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face."
That's not Pravda; it's what our own people said behind closed doors. It was true then and remained true when events played out as predicted. Your denials only prove that you have no real concern for Ukraine.
In response to the Ukrainian legislature voting to move toward joining EU, Russia first bribes the pro-Russian president to veto the EU bill he'd campaigned promising to sign, which destabilizes the Ukraine government, prompting a popular uprising which drives that leader into exile. Russia meanwhile is filling the Donbas up with Little Green Men, prompting outbreak of insurgency. Then, Russia invades Crimea. Next, Russia annexes both in an illegal plebiscite. Finally, observing all the instability and with an abundance of caution about future strife, Russia decides to invade Ukraine to forestall a deeper crisis (than it has already created).
And STILL you blame us for all of it.
LOL that's not mud in those mudpies you're making......
Referring to the Russian economic proposal as a "bribe" is colonial arrogance at its finest. In your mind it was illegitimate for Putin to even make a competing offer, much less for Yanukovych to consider accepting it. So we refused to negotiate, and instead supported a coup, which as noted above was what actually prompted the insurgency. Crimea was annexed with the overwhelming support of its people, but of course you're wrong about the Donbas. It wasn't annexed until almost a decade later, after the failure of the Minsk plan and the refusal of any further talks by the West.
What a fatuously obtuse take. You cite the Russian carrot but not the stick nor any inducements to Yanukovich directly.
What was to negotiate? Ukrainian parliament passed a bill with widespread popular support that Yanukovich had pledged to sign, during his campaign for office and thereafter. Then, at the last minute, after a Russian ultimatum, he didn't just balk....he pulled out of an agreement years in the making, an agreement he had previously supported, an agreement a majority of the country supported. That prompted a popular uprising. After several days of instructing his police to shoot unarmed protestors, he reached out to the opposition to form a unity government. The day after that, he fled the capitol. He was replaced by constitutional processes.
You're not engaging in historical revisionism. You're spouting outright Russian Propaganda.
