Edmond Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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I'm not angry that people don't accept my view. I noted that Baylor is full of differing views and I'm cool with that.

But, when most people have evidence or new information put in front of them, they modify their opinions. You just disregard evidence that doesn't fit your narrative and keep trolling along with the same statements.

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Well there is the problem

You think having an opinion is trolling.

You admit Baylor has become more progressive on some issues (DEI, LGBTQ, etc.) and then turn around and get mad that people might not like that.

You also seem to think that as long as Baylor can be compared to other peer institutions that might be even more progressive then that makes it just fine.

And you get really prissy if people don't agree.

You act like a zealot who hates zealots....

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I think being intentionally obtuse is trolling.

I'm comfortable letting others judge for themselves.

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You're just insulting people because for some reason you take this all very personally.

Maybe you run your own business and are not used to people disagreeing with you....maybe you just expect your own daughters to never talk back.

But in the real world you will find that people can and will disagree on the interpretation of events.

And it does not help when you start off miss mashing threads together or misrepresenting other peoples views

ScrappyPaws said:

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ScrappyPaws said:

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So we're going through this right now. My eldest is a senior and he applied on a hope and prayer with no real idea that we would be able to afford it. He has exceptional test scores, solid gpa, and loads of accolades. He was accepted and offered scholarships and grants that equaled less than half of the roughly $78k price tag.

That wasn't going to work for us BUT then he was awarded the full 4 year Army ROTC scholarship to any of his top three schools including BU! We went from Baylor being a dream to a certainty and I could not be more proud and excited to have my son committed to Baylor and then to serving our country.

Private school economics are a strange beast. It seems the greater the endowment, the higher the sticker price, AND the greater the availability of financial aid. If you qualify for ANY need based aid (less than $220k household income give or take) and you're an exceptional student, schools like Rice, U of Chicago, John's Hopkins, will be massively reduced and likely to carry a price tag similar to or better than state schools. Baylor doesn't have that level of funding but they essentially work off the same formula but even more selective. If you don't have government defined need and stellar academics, or out of this world academics, Baylor will be an expensive proposition for you.

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Just a side note about the perceived value... with the continued leftward movement of higher education as a whole, Baylor is among a select few universities that provide a top tier education from a more balanced perspective. The Wake Forests and Vanderbilts of the world also fit that niche. But a top tier school that also openly supports spiritual development. Only Baylor and Notre Dame come to mind. That makes the price tag worth it for many. We couldn't have done it no matter how much we wanted to had he not been awarded the ROTC scholarship.

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Sure you could have, make your kid take out some loans.

Edmond Bear said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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Chamberman said:

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Baylor's not competing against itself 30, 40, or 50 years ago, like most of you keep making comparisons to.

Tuition rates across the country were driven up by Federal government's guarantee of student loan programs over the past 20 years or so. Increased demand drove up price. Baylor would have been foolish to not follow suit with the rest of the market.

A bigger indictment on Baylor would be that it's own alumni don't have careers that have allowed their incomes to grow at a pace to permit their next generations to be able to afford to attend. That's the failure of past Baylor.

Maybe they've fixed that, maybe not. Only time will tell.

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I don't understand this.

Baylor cannot force alumni to choose certain majors, so, if someone wants to pay $50-60k/year in tuition to major in the humanities or nursing, who is Baylor to tell them "no"? Further and despite would some schools will try to imply, salaries - both starting and mid career - vary by region, and this means that comparing starting salaries of Baylor alumni vs alumni of SanFran, NY, or LA based schools would just be silly as TX cost of living is much lower than that of NY or CA for now.

Separately, as the poster indicates above, a massive amount of Baylor's student body is filled with relatives/friends of alumni, and that's concerning as it would appear that Baylor struggles to sell itself to non-biased prospective students.

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I don't understand how someone could come to a thread about the record number of applications and come to the conclusion that Baylor is struggling to sell itself to non-alumni.

The point of the legacy admission stat is that alumni are so pleased with their experience that they are sending their kids there.

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There are plenty of data points that can clarify that struggle. For example, what is Baylor's undergraduate acceptance rate and how does it compare to the institutions that Baylor would like to compare itself to? To rephrase, high application numbers don't mean anything if the admitted students don't want to come.

Circling back to the above question : A ~50% acceptance rate for a high profile private school is not good and shows some degree of difficulty in convincing all of those applicants to actually attend.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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I don't understand how someone could come to a thread about the record number of applications and come to the conclusion that Baylor is struggling to sell itself to non-alumni.

The point of the legacy admission stat is that alumni are so pleased with their experience that they are sending their kids there.

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There are plenty of data points that can clarify that struggle. For example, what is Baylor's undergraduate acceptance rate and how does it compare to the institutions that Baylor would like to compare itself to? To rephrase, high application numbers don't mean anything if the admitted students don't want want to come.

Circling back to the above question : A ~50% acceptance rate for a high profile private school is not good and shows some degree of difficulty in convincing all of those applicants to actually attend.

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Welp, Aberzombie, I did the research and you are right.

The table below is for our watercooler "peers" in Texas and a few nationals that I was just interested in. All of the schools in the table use the Common App for application and have a free application. All of the data is from each school's Common Data Set which is reported to the government and covers 2022-2023 which is the latest year that every school in the list made available.

The Accept% column is Admit divided by Apply. The EnrollAdmit% column is Enroll divided by Admit.



Baylor's 18% in the EnrollAdmit% column means that Baylor has to accept a high number of students to get to the size and shape of class it desires.

Baylor's Common Data Set repository can be found here - https://ir.web.baylor.edu/institutional-reports/common-data-set

Interesting notes from this list:

• Baylor admits as many students as UT Austin
• TCU admitted 854 males, Baylor admitted 1,365 males which means Baylor is 60% more male than TCU.
• Baylor has about as many people apply as Texas A&M and more than Texas Tech

Here is Baylor's trend. Something happened around Covid and our Admit number went really high and stayed there.

Edmond Bear said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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I don't understand how someone could come to a thread about the record number of applications and come to the conclusion that Baylor is struggling to sell itself to non-alumni.

The point of the legacy admission stat is that alumni are so pleased with their experience that they are sending their kids there.

---

There are plenty of data points that can clarify that struggle. For example, what is Baylor's undergraduate acceptance rate and how does it compare to the institutions that Baylor would like to compare itself to? To rephrase, high application numbers don't mean anything if the admitted students don't want want to come.

Circling back to the above question : A ~50% acceptance rate for a high profile private school is not good and shows some degree of difficulty in convincing all of those applicants to actually attend.

---

Welp, Aberzombie, I did the research and you are right.

The table below is for our watercooler "peers" in Texas and a few nationals that I was just interested in. All of the schools in the table use the Common App for application and have a free application. All of the data is from each school's Common Data Set which is reported to the government and covers 2022-2023 which is the latest year that every school in the list made available.

The Accept% column is Admit divided by Apply. The EnrollAdmit% column is Enroll divided by Admit.



Baylor's 18% in the EnrollAdmit% column means that Baylor has to accept a high number of students to get to the size and shape of class it desires.

Baylor's Common Data Set repository can be found here - https://ir.web.baylor.edu/institutional-reports/common-data-set

Interesting notes from this list:

• Baylor admits as many students as UT Austin
• TCU admitted 854 males, Baylor admitted 1,365 males which means Baylor is 60% more male than TCU.
• Baylor has about as many people apply as Texas A&M and more than Texas Tech

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Rice has free application?









Or TCU?


[TCU requires a nonrefundable $50 application fee. (Waived for Veterans, Phi Theta Kappa members, and first generation college students.) TCU is a selective university, and our Admission and Scholarship Committees review thousands of applications each year]

https://admissions.tcu.edu/apply/transfer/index.php#:~:text=TCU%20requires%20a%20nonrefundable%20%2450,and%20first%20generation%20college%20students.)&text=TCU%20is%20a%20selective%20university,thousands%20of%20applications%20each%20year.

Redbrickbear said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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I don't understand how someone could come to a thread about the record number of applications and come to the conclusion that Baylor is struggling to sell itself to non-alumni.

The point of the legacy admission stat is that alumni are so pleased with their experience that they are sending their kids there.

---

There are plenty of data points that can clarify that struggle. For example, what is Baylor's undergraduate acceptance rate and how does it compare to the institutions that Baylor would like to compare itself to? To rephrase, high application numbers don't mean anything if the admitted students don't want want to come.

Circling back to the above question : A ~50% acceptance rate for a high profile private school is not good and shows some degree of difficulty in convincing all of those applicants to actually attend.

---

Welp, Aberzombie, I did the research and you are right.

The table below is for our watercooler "peers" in Texas and a few nationals that I was just interested in. All of the schools in the table use the Common App for application and have a free application. All of the data is from each school's Common Data Set which is reported to the government and covers 2022-2023 which is the latest year that every school in the list made available.

The Accept% column is Admit divided by Apply. The EnrollAdmit% column is Enroll divided by Admit.



Baylor's 18% in the EnrollAdmit% column means that Baylor has to accept a high number of students to get to the size and shape of class it desires.

Baylor's Common Data Set repository can be found here - https://ir.web.baylor.edu/institutional-reports/common-data-set

Interesting notes from this list:

• Baylor admits as many students as UT Austin
• TCU admitted 854 males, Baylor admitted 1,365 males which means Baylor is 60% more male than TCU.
• Baylor has about as many people apply as Texas A&M and more than Texas Tech

---

Rice has free application?









Or TCU?


[TCU requires a nonrefundable $50 application fee. (Waived for Veterans, Phi Theta Kappa members, and first generation college students.) TCU is a selective university, and our Admission and Scholarship Committees review thousands of applications each year]

https://admissions.tcu.edu/apply/transfer/index.php#:~:text=TCU%20requires%20a%20nonrefundable%20%2450,and%20first%20generation%20college%20students.)&text=TCU%20is%20a%20selective%20university,thousands%20of%20applications%20each%20year.

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Yep. You are right. I made a bad assumption about the Common App.

How does NYU enroll more students than they admit?

Baylor has obviously become very expensive but if you work it, they offer a lot of scholarships and aid. Not always enough these days with ballooning tuition costs across the country but worth seeing how much is possible if it's a dream school. Also, if you have a kid enrolled currently, make sure they are tight with some professors and department chairs. They can nominate and write recommendations for some scholarships. Also just great networking practice, but professors do want to help more so than many other schools.

Have spoken with some recent graduates and the school seems to be working hard to grow the name nationally. Starting salary plays a role with a number of rankings especially for graduate schools. Baylor will always lag a bit in salary as the Christian mission does send kids into seminary and not for profits. Nothing wrong with these lines of work. It is very honorable but does not come with a fancy salary like JP Morgan or McKinsey, granted we have alums at both.

Speaking with friends who have hired or worked with Baylor alums they are mostly pleased. One friend said it's the only private school he'd hire from. Graduates are viewed as hardworking, capable, and pleasant to be around. The latter is increasingly important.

Speaking with friends and a few alums across the country from NYC to Seattle, the Ivy League degrees have been losing their shine. Latest crops of kids have been viewed as entitled and unwilling to get the job done (plus the wacky ones wanting to take politics into the office). Great little opening starting to form that Baylor could take advantage of.

Enrollment is down the past couple years since attaining R1. Less focus on undergraduates I'd assume. Focusing more on research could help grow the name more nationally and globally but money typically comes from undergraduates. I wouldn't expect a price tag drop anytime soon unfortunately.

Lastly, Baylor has a growing alumni network that is by and large very friendly and eager to help fellow alums. As many have said, Baylor alums tend to love Baylor. The Baylor atmosphere and experience is familial. It is not cutthroat like some other schools where students view their classmates as competition. Always help an alum when you can and don't be afraid to reach out to one. Alums have a role to play in growing the brand, because we are the brand once it enters the workforce.

Wow, interesting news. I would like to thank him for that. In my opinion, there are many students who are talented but cannot afford to pay for their education. I remember when I had problems at the university and I turned to https://essays.edubirdie.com/dissertation-writing-service for help, which they provided in the future very efficiently and quickly. Thanks to such people as Baylor our country will be more successful.

Chamberman said:

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Baylor's not competing against itself 30, 40, or 50 years ago, like most of you keep making comparisons to.

A bigger indictment on Baylor would be that it's own alumni don't have careers that have allowed their incomes to grow at a pace to permit their next generations to be able to afford to attend. That's the failure of past Baylor.

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Context needs to be added here. Past Baylor offered a private school education at an affordable price well below our closest peer institutions (TCU and SMU, for example). Thus many Baylor grads were able to pursue careers like teaching and still be able to pay off any student debt. But of course teachers don't make big bucks that they can kick back to the school.

At some point Baylor decided to stop being the affordable private school and rocketed prices to nearly in line with all of our peers. To some large degree, Baylor changed who/ what it was.

That change creates conflict, both in that older alumni with modest paying careers can't fund Baylor transforming itself into a more typical private school that only pumps out high-paying careers, and in that older alumni don't enjoy seeing Baylor becomes that, either. We used to be something more distinctive, and many - whether you agree or not - feel like we fumbled our mission and unique identity somewhere along the way.

Edmond Bear said:

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• Baylor has about as many people apply as Texas A&M and more than Texas Tech

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Texas A&M doesn't need a lot of applicants. They get an insane amount of transfers who don't bother to apply out of HS and probably at least 20% of their student body consists of Blinn JC transfers. This is also true of Texas Tech and Texas State. Everyone likes to think of those 2 as tier 2 school transfer-out schools just because of their admit percentages but in reality their student body is a net of over 10K transfer-ins. Just look at their first time freshman classes out of HS vs their 40K student bodies.

WHO'S BEST AT FOOTBALL *AND* SCHOOL?
Part 1 - "Power 4" 🏈🎓

Here's an updated and fun look at all-time football program rankings compared to the university's institutional rank:

Who is the best at both?
Any big surprises? pic.twitter.com/Gl8YOiWWMu

— Tony Altimore (@TJAltimore) April 22, 2024

Just to provide a bit of pespective....perhaps humor, let me outline costs for me when I enrolled in 1967, graduated in 1971, then graduated from law school in 1975:

Tuition: $25/hour. Perhaps it increased to $30 or $35/hour before I finished law school.
Room and Board: Penland: About $400/semester.

So, total costs for an academic year: Around $1,800

I had a $350/semester scholarship (thanks Coca Cola) and a $350/semester loan. I worked 20 hours a week in the Student Union Building the entire time I was at Baylor (started at $1.25/hour and advanced all the way up to $1.60 hour when I left).

The last three years of undergraduate school I rented an apartment with another guy at 10th & Speight (it was Abner McCall's home before he became president) for $60/month, all bills paid. No A/C of course, so my monthly rent was $30.

I took the $200 or so left over from the scholarship and loan after tuition, books and fees and prepaid my rent for each semester.

My pay from work at the SUB went for groceries, gas and beer.

Those were the days......

Edmond Bear said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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I don't understand how someone could come to a thread about the record number of applications and come to the conclusion that Baylor is struggling to sell itself to non-alumni.

The point of the legacy admission stat is that alumni are so pleased with their experience that they are sending their kids there.

---

There are plenty of data points that can clarify that struggle. For example, what is Baylor's undergraduate acceptance rate and how does it compare to the institutions that Baylor would like to compare itself to? To rephrase, high application numbers don't mean anything if the admitted students don't want want to come.

Circling back to the above question : A ~50% acceptance rate for a high profile private school is not good and shows some degree of difficulty in convincing all of those applicants to actually attend.

---

Welp, Aberzombie, I did the research and you are right.

The table below is for our watercooler "peers" in Texas and a few nationals that I was just interested in. All of the schools in the table use the Common App for application and have a free application. All of the data is from each school's Common Data Set which is reported to the government and covers 2022-2023 which is the latest year that every school in the list made available.

The Accept% column is Admit divided by Apply. The EnrollAdmit% column is Enroll divided by Admit.



Baylor's 18% in the EnrollAdmit% column means that Baylor has to accept a high number of students to get to the size and shape of class it desires.

Baylor's Common Data Set repository can be found here - https://ir.web.baylor.edu/institutional-reports/common-data-set

Interesting notes from this list:

• Baylor admits as many students as UT Austin
• TCU admitted 854 males, Baylor admitted 1,365 males which means Baylor is 60% more male than TCU.
• Baylor has about as many people apply as Texas A&M and more than Texas Tech

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Given that Baylor receives a lot of applicants but struggles to convince admitted students to attend, it is likely an issue with (1) scholarships, both in abstract and relative to competing schools, and (2) information in the admission packet (i.e. potentially the Sexual Conduct Policy). Given the nature of Baylor of an institution and Baylor's relatively limited endowment, there is not much that can be done to address those two items.

Debunks quite a few myths (mainly that private schools with their academics have to be on the outside looking in relative to athletic success) while reinforcing some truths (TTU, OKSt, WV et al).

MT_Bear said:

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Chamberman said:

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Baylor's not competing against itself 30, 40, or 50 years ago, like most of you keep making comparisons to.

A bigger indictment on Baylor would be that it's own alumni don't have careers that have allowed their incomes to grow at a pace to permit their next generations to be able to afford to attend. That's the failure of past Baylor.

---

Context needs to be added here. Past Baylor offered a private school education at an affordable price well below our closest peer institutions (TCU and SMU, for example). This many Baylor grads were able to pursue careers like teaching and still be able to pay off any student debt. But of course teachers don't make big bucks that they can kick back to the school.

At some point Baylor decided to stop being the affordable private school and rocketed prices to nearly in line with all of our peers. To some large degree, Baylor changed who/ what it was.

That change creates conflict, both in that older alumni with modest paying careers can't fund Baylor transforming itself into a more typical private school that only pumps out high-paging careers, and in that older alumni don't enjoy seeing Baylor becomes that, either. We used to be something more distinctive, and many - whether you agree or not - feel like we fumbled our mission and unique identity somewhere along the way.

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Great great post MT Bear

I get the feeling this is 100% accurate

I get the feeling that it's partially accurate. Significant changes, including tuition, were accelerated about the time we decided to become part of the B12, and the demands, pressures, and related responsibilities and expectations.
Not joining the B12 may well have kept us from charging as much tuition and fees. Additionally, universities, especially large ones, have services that smaller ones don't, especially community colleges, which some may refer to as bloat, fat, fluff, etc. Then there are those who, despite the cost of attending, choose to go to Baylor, instead of a cheaper alternative. Many of these people love the experience they had; however, over time that fades, but the reminders of their decisions keep coming in the mail.


Some take the opportunity to blame their decisions on the entity which offered that Baylor experience, forgetting where a significant portion of the blame truly belongs. One might wonder if they failed to remember the lesson in Matthew 20. Even if they did, and some were rewarded less than the last, they might still gripe about the other's generosity. With record admission numbers, for an institution which graduated some very articulate gritchers, perhaps they are not gritching loud enough, or, perhaps, hmmmm.

BUDOS said:

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Apparently, at least to a lot of people, it doesn't.
""Just so far as we are pleased at finding faults, are we displeased at finding perfection" is something some may need to understand, or perhaps not?

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Not picking up the sarcasm are we?

Not sure. It's been said that there are two types of people in this world. Those who understand and appreciate sarcasm, and those who are intellectually challenged. So, I guess it depends?

BUDOS said:

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I get the feeling that it's partially accurate. Significant changes, including tuition, were accelerated about the time we decided to become part of the B12, and the demands, pressures, and related responsibilities and expectations.
Not joining the B12 may well have kept us from charging as much tuition and fees. Additionally, universities, especially large ones, have services that smaller ones don't, especially community colleges, which some may refer to as bloat, fat, fluff, etc. Then there are those who, despite the cost of attending, choose to go to Baylor, instead of a cheaper alternative. Many of these people love the experience they had; however, over time that fades, but the reminders of their decisions keep coming in the mail.


Some take the opportunity to blame their decisions on the entity which offered that Baylor experience, forgetting where a significant portion of the blame truly belongs. One might wonder if they failed to remember the lesson in Matthew 20. Even if they did, and some were rewarded less than the last, they might still gripe about the other's generosity. With record admission numbers, for an institution which graduated some very articulate gritchers, perhaps they are not gritching loud enough, or, perhaps, hmmmm.

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The inflection point on tuition was more closely tied to Baylor's "Vision 2012" and push to become tier 1 than it was to the formation of the Big XII. But I'm not saying that the "vision" was the sole cause or that the Big XII had zero impact either. Both are in line with a fundamental change that happened over about a decade from the late 90s through early 2000s.

Gotcha, stated that way, I can also agree with that concept.

In 2019, Baylor set a school-record with 7 Fulbright recipients.

In 2022, BU doubled that record with 14.

This year, a record 16 (!!!) Baylor students & alumni have won prestigious Fulbright awards. #SicEm 🐻🏅

📰: https://t.co/HsfTHfg7Aq pic.twitter.com/688baYLKLu

— Baylor University (@Baylor) April 25, 2024

boognish_bear said:

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In 2019, Baylor set a school-record with 7 Fulbright recipients.

In 2022, BU doubled that record with 14.

This year, a record 16 (!!!) Baylor students & alumni have won prestigious Fulbright awards. #SicEm 🐻🏅

📰: https://t.co/HsfTHfg7Aq pic.twitter.com/688baYLKLu

— Baylor University (@Baylor) April 25, 2024

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What are their 40yd dash times? And are any of them a legit Edge rusher?




football

Our daughter earned her undergraduate and graduate degrees from Baylor in Speech and Language Therapy. We didn't pay anything near that sticker price and she is very well compensated now thanks to her education. I honestly believe that our ROI is very very good and we would do it all again.

Good deal! And based on the record setting number of applications there are others, many others, who agree.

Greenboy232 said:

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We have two kids at Baylor right now, and while it is expensive, neither pays anywhere close to the sticker price thanks to scholarships and a very small amount of financial aid.

I'm in a weird "middle ground" financially where I make "too much" to really get any significant financial aid, but I make "too little" to be able to afford to send my kids to Baylor at full price.

Thankfully, there are ample scholarships available, both through Baylor and externally, if you're willing to look for them and do the work to apply for them. It's still very tight for us right now, but we feel like it's a fantastic investment both because we love Baylor (both my wife and I graduated from there), and because we feel like our kids are not only getting an excellent education, but also Baylor is one of the few remaining major universities that hasn't completely gone "woke." Granted, it's starting to infiltrate Baylor, but there's still a fairly sound Christian worldview being taught, by and large. Plus all the trappings of a big university with athletics, clubs, greek life, etc. Both of them have grown socially, spiritually, and certainly academically in their years as students. Both of them are very active in a Waco church, and as parents that's wonderful to see.

We feel like we're paying not only for the academics, but also for the intangibles that our kids will experience, learn from, and benefit from at Baylor. Plus, they absolutely love the school - having grown up as Bears. For us, we feel like it's a good investment. One of our kids will go onto law school (on her own dime), and the other is majoring in mechanical engineering. We feel like both will get a good return on their investment with those careers.

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Agree. My kids are doing well there. Got plenty of scholarships. It's still tight but we are doing it without loans. I told them I'd pay for whatever school they want but not for whatever major. I'm not paying for Art History degree BS. Both are science majors. It's hard but we make it work. All colleges are expensive but I like their degree when it's all done. I need them to succeed to support their broke old man after all of this.

So from stats posted there seems to be approximately 17.5% of those admitted who enroll. How would that be handled if, say, 50% chose to enroll? Do admissions set a deadline, or cut off number?

The other year students were put up in hotels. Non freshman have been offered some rent assistance to move off campus.

Reverend said:

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So from stats posted there seems to be approximately 17.5% of those admitted who enroll. How would that be handled if, say, 50% chose to enroll? Do admissions set a deadline, or cut off number?

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They use historical numbers to make acceptance numbers. They definitely want to keep class size at a certain number to replace graduations/transfers/drops.

Today, if 50% chose to enroll, Baylor would have a huge problem.

Edmond Bear said:

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Reverend said:

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So from stats posted there seems to be approximately 17.5% of those admitted who enroll. How would that be handled if, say, 50% chose to enroll? Do admissions set a deadline, or cut off number?

---

They use historical numbers to make acceptance numbers. They definitely want to keep class size at a certain number to replace graduations/transfers/drops.

Today, if 50% chose to enroll, Baylor would have a huge problem.

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That situation is why schools have rolling admissions and deadlines to accept offers of admission - it allows the schools to know who is coming before the next round of acceptances.

Certainly there are admissions made before others, because some applications are made earlier, and meet the admissions criteria. So there is an acceptance deadline? As opposed to simply saying the class is full and you're too late to accept?