whiterock said:

---

historian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

historian said:

---

Unfortunately, that is true. Social Security is the largest Ponzi scheme in history. They all have insane obligations that will not all be possible at some point. If you think our national debt is insane, look at our unfunded liabilities (lower right):

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

It is unsustainable and our incompetence Congress just voted to send another $61 billion of your grandkids' money to the Ukraine forever war.

---

They'll have to print money which will lead to even more inflation,

Inflation is legal counterfeiting and counterfeiting is criminal inflation. Central banking is a coordinated currency counterfeiting cartel that runs the world.

Milton Friedman said money printing is just like alcoholism: you feel good at first and then you eventually have the hangover. The same is true about inflation, every time there's a crisis you have to print an exponential amount of money because there's an exponential amount of liabilities from the last round of printing.

It will eventually hyperinflate into worthlessness if they continue doing this.

---

Remember, there is a method to the madness = Inflation services debt.\

And one more even less well understood concept. We do not have to maintain a terribly tidy financial house; it just has to be tidier than anyone else's.

We can do whatever the hell we want, and as long as EU, Germany, Japan, UK, France, etc.....are in worse shape.......everyone will flock to the dollar and keep it alive.

You don't have to outrun the lion.
You just have to outrun your buddy.

---

I'm not saying all debt is bad or unnecessary…but the current expenditures are insane.

The US govt raises $5 trillion per year in revenue. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and interest on the debt cost $5 trillion per year. Everything else requires debt to pay for. Defense, State Dept, Agriculture, Education, NASA ... everything.

The level of inflation we've been dealing with is far outpacing wages. The idiotic Keynesian economists claim otherwise, but buying power is in major decline and that stems directly from printing money which causes inflation. We can't continue to go down the current path.

If debt really doesn't matter then you could print unlimited amounts of money. We know that doesn't work and countries like Venezuela have tried and it resulted in chaos.




They're gonna raise SS to age 70 which is 35 years before I turn 70. Im barely gonna get anything out of it after paying for a lifetime. It sucks ass man.

---

We should raise SS to 72 as full retirement.

Extending out the retirement age will slow the decline of the workforce by retaining our most highly skilled workers. That will also retain our most highly compensated workers (an incremental add to the wage tax base). More to the point, though, SS was not intended to be a two-decade long defined benefit plan. we waited way too long to start nudging it up. And nudging it up is indeed the way they will fix it. The worse the demographic tree looks, the more they'll have to nudge it up. You need X number of workers to pay for Y number of retirees......

I have no plan to retire to read books & watch bobbers in the creek. The stuff I like to do costs money.....

---

Us average life expectancy for a male is 73. Lifespan is also rapidly declining because of our diets and lack of exercise.

If they keep raising it then everyone who could qualify for it will be dead. So what the hell is the point of SS if the vast majority of people don't ever get it?

---

in 1935, when Social Security was enacted, life expectancy was 61.7 years.
in 1935, when Social Security was enacted, full retirement age was 65

Today, SS full retirement is 67.
Look at what's happened to life expectancy.

Full retirement age has not kept pace with life expectancy. Fix that, and you fix social security.

---

Haley said that, but she is a NeoCom. You a closet NeoCom, Whiterock?? : )

---

Beware the mixing of political metaphors...... NeoCon is a foreign policy epithet; SS is a domestic policy issue.

(wink)

---

Neoconservatism has domestic aspects too. Unfortunately, they are all based upon Keynesian economics with the corresponding results.

---

The policy makers have to balance a budget regardless whether they are looking to Keynes or Hayek for inspiration.

---

If they are inspired by Keynes, they will almost never balance the budget. Hayek would inspire more responsible governance.

historian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

historian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

historian said:

---

Unfortunately, that is true. Social Security is the largest Ponzi scheme in history. They all have insane obligations that will not all be possible at some point. If you think our national debt is insane, look at our unfunded liabilities (lower right):

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

It is unsustainable and our incompetence Congress just voted to send another $61 billion of your grandkids' money to the Ukraine forever war.

---

They'll have to print money which will lead to even more inflation,

Inflation is legal counterfeiting and counterfeiting is criminal inflation. Central banking is a coordinated currency counterfeiting cartel that runs the world.

Milton Friedman said money printing is just like alcoholism: you feel good at first and then you eventually have the hangover. The same is true about inflation, every time there's a crisis you have to print an exponential amount of money because there's an exponential amount of liabilities from the last round of printing.

It will eventually hyperinflate into worthlessness if they continue doing this.

---

Remember, there is a method to the madness = Inflation services debt.\

And one more even less well understood concept. We do not have to maintain a terribly tidy financial house; it just has to be tidier than anyone else's.

We can do whatever the hell we want, and as long as EU, Germany, Japan, UK, France, etc.....are in worse shape.......everyone will flock to the dollar and keep it alive.

You don't have to outrun the lion.
You just have to outrun your buddy.

---

I'm not saying all debt is bad or unnecessary…but the current expenditures are insane.

The US govt raises $5 trillion per year in revenue. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and interest on the debt cost $5 trillion per year. Everything else requires debt to pay for. Defense, State Dept, Agriculture, Education, NASA ... everything.

The level of inflation we've been dealing with is far outpacing wages. The idiotic Keynesian economists claim otherwise, but buying power is in major decline and that stems directly from printing money which causes inflation. We can't continue to go down the current path.

If debt really doesn't matter then you could print unlimited amounts of money. We know that doesn't work and countries like Venezuela have tried and it resulted in chaos.




They're gonna raise SS to age 70 which is 35 years before I turn 70. Im barely gonna get anything out of it after paying for a lifetime. It sucks ass man.

---

We should raise SS to 72 as full retirement.

Extending out the retirement age will slow the decline of the workforce by retaining our most highly skilled workers. That will also retain our most highly compensated workers (an incremental add to the wage tax base). More to the point, though, SS was not intended to be a two-decade long defined benefit plan. we waited way too long to start nudging it up. And nudging it up is indeed the way they will fix it. The worse the demographic tree looks, the more they'll have to nudge it up. You need X number of workers to pay for Y number of retirees......

I have no plan to retire to read books & watch bobbers in the creek. The stuff I like to do costs money.....

---

Us average life expectancy for a male is 73. Lifespan is also rapidly declining because of our diets and lack of exercise.

If they keep raising it then everyone who could qualify for it will be dead. So what the hell is the point of SS if the vast majority of people don't ever get it?

---

in 1935, when Social Security was enacted, life expectancy was 61.7 years.
in 1935, when Social Security was enacted, full retirement age was 65

Today, SS full retirement is 67.
Look at what's happened to life expectancy.

Full retirement age has not kept pace with life expectancy. Fix that, and you fix social security.

---

Haley said that, but she is a NeoCom. You a closet NeoCom, Whiterock?? : )

---

Beware the mixing of political metaphors...... NeoCon is a foreign policy epithet; SS is a domestic policy issue.

(wink)

---

Neoconservatism has domestic aspects too. Unfortunately, they are all based upon Keynesian economics with the corresponding results.

---

The policy makers have to balance a budget regardless whether they are looking to Keynes or Hayek for inspiration.

---

If they are inspired by Keynes, they will almost never balance the budget. Hayek would inspire more responsible governance.

---

Depends on whether they are cash flowing based on revenues. Public finance operates on 30 year planning periods, 6 year work programs and single year budgets, balancing a single year is not a requirement if the cash flow is there.

Typically, it is not the budgeting that gets us in trouble, it is the emergency spending. The Trillion here or trillion there. If we stuck to the budgets, it would all be manageable.

It's more complicated than that. The $34.5 trillion national debt is not because of a series of emergencies (although covid wasteful spending greatly added to it). It's because of entitlements and a Congress full of incompetent & corrupt cowards who refuse to do their jobs responsibly. Both houses & both parties deserve blame but one party has had the occasional member to address the issue only to be ignored or criticized by the rest.

They all find it much easier to steal our money and use it to buy votes. And We the People let them.

historian said:

---

It's more complicated than that. The $34.5 trillion national debt is not because of a series of emergencies (although covid wasteful spending greatly added to it). It's because of entitlements and a Congress full of incompetent & corrupt cowards who refuse to do their jobs responsibly. Both houses & both parties deserve blame but one party has had the occasional member to address the issue only to be ignored or criticized by the rest.

They all find it much easier to steal our money and use it to buy votes. And We the People let them.

---

And your greatest ally Israel and its lobbyist proxys are right at the heart of the corruption in Washington DC.

When our country is being actively invaded by 40 million criminals while our paralyzed, divided government is unable to do anything to defend the American people but will suddenly snap into action in the blink of an eye to send our money to Israel, transfer ownership of TikTok to their preferred intermediaries, and pass hate speech laws which violate our constitutional rights that shows you who is really in charge.

If Israel was truly our greatest ally they would use the immense, unrivaled power they have in Washington to secure our borders. If they did that I would shut up and never question them again.

Our budgetary problems have nothing to do with Israel or any foreign aid. Total foreign aid is a tiny fraction of a multi-trillion dollar budget every year ($17 billion out of $6.5 trillion).

You really should stop trying to blame everything on Israel & the Jews. The neo-Nazi vibes seem foolish & deranged. You actually repeated some blatantly false Nazi propaganda on an earlier post. It was pretty disgusting.

historian said:

---

Our budgetary problems have nothing to do with Israel or any foreign aid. Total foreign aid is a tiny fraction of a multi-trillion dollar budget every year ($17 billion out of $6.5 trillion).

You really should stop trying to blame everything on Israel & the Jews. The neo-Nazi vibes seem foolish & deranged. You actually repeated some blatantly false Nazi propaganda on an earlier post. It was pretty disgusting.

---

Nothing? As in there is no connection whatsoever? Really?

That foreign aid that was just passed, they didn't have the money for! They had to go borrow it in this high interest rate enviornment we are experiencing. So it's not just the principle, there is a whole lot of interest being added too!

Also it's not just direct, blank check foreign aid, there is a LOT of pork going out to foreign special interests that none of us will ever hear about. In return politicians get their kickbacks and re-elections financed.

Every dollar wasted contributes to our budgetary crisis. And discretionary spending should be entirely illegal without a balanced budget!

To address your second paragraph:

1) You are leaving out the context why I replied to you post with "nazi propaganda" and being a dishonest rodent

2) Israel and Jews in general are not some sacred cow immune from criticism. They commit misdeeds like anyone else. Case and point - USS Liberty. The fact that you hand wave the USS Liberty or the slaughter of noncombantants, specifically children in Gaza betrays what a sick ******* you truly are.

Guys like you and Nien label me a neo-nazi and a member of the aryan brotherhood simply bcs I am a white, America First, conservative who wants to divest from Israel and doesn't believe Israel is a friendly actor who cares about the interests of all American people. The people who have given them so much support for so many decades. Tax paying families like my own!

Those thoughts make me a dangerous, domestic terrorist evidently. I have NEVER expressed any violent rhetoric here to warrant these accusations. That is the sophistry and fear mongering you people use to shut down criticism and free speech.

Historian, Nien, and anyone else who wants to place a target on my head for being critical of a foreign government and the people in power, I refuse to be bullied by you mendacious devils.

I am not evil for having the audacity to stand up for myself while being white. White, conservative men are allowed to be critical of and have opinions about Israel or jews or anything else without some disingenuous *******s labeling them as domestic terrorists!

historian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

historian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

historian said:

---

Unfortunately, that is true. Social Security is the largest Ponzi scheme in history. They all have insane obligations that will not all be possible at some point. If you think our national debt is insane, look at our unfunded liabilities (lower right):

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

It is unsustainable and our incompetence Congress just voted to send another $61 billion of your grandkids' money to the Ukraine forever war.

---

They'll have to print money which will lead to even more inflation,

Inflation is legal counterfeiting and counterfeiting is criminal inflation. Central banking is a coordinated currency counterfeiting cartel that runs the world.

Milton Friedman said money printing is just like alcoholism: you feel good at first and then you eventually have the hangover. The same is true about inflation, every time there's a crisis you have to print an exponential amount of money because there's an exponential amount of liabilities from the last round of printing.

It will eventually hyperinflate into worthlessness if they continue doing this.

---

Remember, there is a method to the madness = Inflation services debt.\

And one more even less well understood concept. We do not have to maintain a terribly tidy financial house; it just has to be tidier than anyone else's.

We can do whatever the hell we want, and as long as EU, Germany, Japan, UK, France, etc.....are in worse shape.......everyone will flock to the dollar and keep it alive.

You don't have to outrun the lion.
You just have to outrun your buddy.

---

I'm not saying all debt is bad or unnecessary…but the current expenditures are insane.

The US govt raises $5 trillion per year in revenue. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and interest on the debt cost $5 trillion per year. Everything else requires debt to pay for. Defense, State Dept, Agriculture, Education, NASA ... everything.

The level of inflation we've been dealing with is far outpacing wages. The idiotic Keynesian economists claim otherwise, but buying power is in major decline and that stems directly from printing money which causes inflation. We can't continue to go down the current path.

If debt really doesn't matter then you could print unlimited amounts of money. We know that doesn't work and countries like Venezuela have tried and it resulted in chaos.




They're gonna raise SS to age 70 which is 35 years before I turn 70. Im barely gonna get anything out of it after paying for a lifetime. It sucks ass man.

---

We should raise SS to 72 as full retirement.

Extending out the retirement age will slow the decline of the workforce by retaining our most highly skilled workers. That will also retain our most highly compensated workers (an incremental add to the wage tax base). More to the point, though, SS was not intended to be a two-decade long defined benefit plan. we waited way too long to start nudging it up. And nudging it up is indeed the way they will fix it. The worse the demographic tree looks, the more they'll have to nudge it up. You need X number of workers to pay for Y number of retirees......

I have no plan to retire to read books & watch bobbers in the creek. The stuff I like to do costs money.....

---

Us average life expectancy for a male is 73. Lifespan is also rapidly declining because of our diets and lack of exercise.

If they keep raising it then everyone who could qualify for it will be dead. So what the hell is the point of SS if the vast majority of people don't ever get it?

---

in 1935, when Social Security was enacted, life expectancy was 61.7 years.
in 1935, when Social Security was enacted, full retirement age was 65

Today, SS full retirement is 67.
Look at what's happened to life expectancy.

Full retirement age has not kept pace with life expectancy. Fix that, and you fix social security.

---

Haley said that, but she is a NeoCom. You a closet NeoCom, Whiterock?? : )

---

Beware the mixing of political metaphors...... NeoCon is a foreign policy epithet; SS is a domestic policy issue.

(wink)

---

Neoconservatism has domestic aspects too. Unfortunately, they are all based upon Keynesian economics with the corresponding results.

---

The policy makers have to balance a budget regardless whether they are looking to Keynes or Hayek for inspiration.

---

If they are inspired by Keynes, they will almost never balance the budget. Hayek would inspire more responsible governance.

---

"responsible governance." oxymoron much? (ha) This nation was founded on the notion that it is the nature of mankind NOT to have responsible governance, ergo our extraordinary constitutional limitations on government power.

as a matter of mathematics, small budget deficits (a percentage point or two) don't matter so much, as long as they don't exceed inflation (typically 2-3%). The inflation effectively services the debt, which is never "paid off" in the context of paying off a mortgage to own your house outright. There's always something that really does need doing that requires another bond right after you paid off the prior one. So the reality is, we really just manage debt by ratios (which right now are seriously out of whack).

historian said:

---

It's more complicated than that. The $34.5 trillion national debt is not because of a series of emergencies (although covid wasteful spending greatly added to it). It's because of entitlements and a Congress full of incompetent & corrupt cowards who refuse to do their jobs responsibly. Both houses & both parties deserve blame but one party has had the occasional member to address the issue only to be ignored or criticized by the rest.

They all find it much easier to steal our money and use it to buy votes. And We the People let them.

---

I agree on the emergencies (everything is now an emergency worthy of Govt bailout) and especially COVID, wasteful and destructive spending, Not a fan of the Auto bail out. Those are the areas we agree.

Where I believe the personal political play in to our discussion is the rest of the budget. I manage a 800 million dollar work plan over a 30-year planning horizon. Some years we have to bond to ensure the safety of the road or expansion of the system (roads are expensive). The cost of money is build into the future budgets, as is OM&A. Depending on needs, we get hit with years that require those bonds. It is not irresponsible, it is the reality of managing large systems.

I get that SS or even our National Budget may be in a down cycle requiring borrowing to smooth the cash flow, the discussion I don't see is the next 30 years. I would love to see a REAL discussion on that. Not political rhetoric based on one or two metrics, but the whole plan. Last time I saw that discussed, we in the 90's with Clinton/Gingrich (I put them together, they may have hated each other but the worked well together).

For example, I have seen SS estimates that we are entering into a period of heavy payouts, boomers retiring. But that is a several year window and climbs out as the next generations enter the work force. Just as visioned.

What scares me is that the younger generations are now trying to change the game. They don't want to work like past generations. They don't want to pay in. You and I worked 15-20 years to get to the point of having seniority, but now seniority means nothing and actually a negative. My wife a Nurse worked all nights and holidays as a young nurse to get to the point where she was supposed to have the good shifts. Now, the young Nurses say that is not fair. At 56 she is still having to work the crap shifts because they won't. She is actually saying she is done she can't take the young Nurses, ten years ago she loved her job and bedside nursing. That is what scares me is the younger generation just saying "Nah, we will let China rule. Just let me have what I want..."

The_barBEARian said:

---

historian said:

---

Our budgetary problems have nothing to do with Israel or any foreign aid. Total foreign aid is a tiny fraction of a multi-trillion dollar budget every year ($17 billion out of $6.5 trillion).

You really should stop trying to blame everything on Israel & the Jews. The neo-Nazi vibes seem foolish & deranged. You actually repeated some blatantly false Nazi propaganda on an earlier post. It was pretty disgusting.

---

Nothing? As in there is no connection whatsoever? Really?

That foreign aid that was just passed, they didn't have the money for! They had to go borrow it in this high interest rate enviornment we are experiencing. So it's not just the principle, there is a whole lot of interest being added too!

Also it's not just direct, blank check foreign aid, there is a LOT of pork going out to foreign special interests that none of us will ever hear about. In return politicians get their kickbacks and re-elections financed.

Every dollar wasted contributes to our budgetary crisis. And discretionary spending should be entirely illegal without a balanced budget!

To address your second paragraph:

1) You are leaving out the context why I replied to you post with "nazi propaganda" and being a dishonest rodent

2) Israel and Jews in general are not some sacred cow immune from criticism. They commit misdeeds like anyone else. Case and point - USS Liberty. The fact that you hand wave the USS Liberty or the slaughter of noncombantants, specifically children in Gaza betrays what a sick ******* you truly are.

Guys like you and Nien label me a neo-nazi and a member of the aryan brotherhood simply bcs I am a white, America First, conservative who wants to divest from Israel and doesn't believe Israel is a friendly actor who cares about the interests of all American people. The people who have given them so much support for so many decades. Tax paying families like my own!

Those thoughts make me a dangerous, domestic terrorist evidently. I have NEVER expressed any violent rhetoric here to warrant these accusations. That is the sophistry and fear mongering you people use to shut down criticism and free speech.

Historian, Nien, and anyone else who wants to place a target on my head for being critical of a foreign government and the people in power, I refuse to be bullied by you mendacious devils.

I am not evil for having the audacity to stand up for myself while being white. White, conservative men are allowed to be critical of and have opinions about Israel or jews or anything else without some disingenuous *******s labeling them as domestic terrorists!

---

you completely miss the point. Cutting foreign aid out of the budget is not going to have any impact on the border whatsoever. Dems are not going to spend the savings to repel illegals at the border. All you accomplish is to reduce our influence abroad, which hastens the advance of a wide range of problems to our own borders, to include even more illegal aliens headed our way.

If you are giving out no aid, you have no leverage other than use of your military or use of sanctions (which hurts your own economy, too).

Isolationism sounds fine in theory, but it really sucks in practice.

whiterock said:

---

historian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

historian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

historian said:

---

Unfortunately, that is true. Social Security is the largest Ponzi scheme in history. They all have insane obligations that will not all be possible at some point. If you think our national debt is insane, look at our unfunded liabilities (lower right):

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

It is unsustainable and our incompetence Congress just voted to send another $61 billion of your grandkids' money to the Ukraine forever war.

---

They'll have to print money which will lead to even more inflation,

Inflation is legal counterfeiting and counterfeiting is criminal inflation. Central banking is a coordinated currency counterfeiting cartel that runs the world.

Milton Friedman said money printing is just like alcoholism: you feel good at first and then you eventually have the hangover. The same is true about inflation, every time there's a crisis you have to print an exponential amount of money because there's an exponential amount of liabilities from the last round of printing.

It will eventually hyperinflate into worthlessness if they continue doing this.

---

Remember, there is a method to the madness = Inflation services debt.\

And one more even less well understood concept. We do not have to maintain a terribly tidy financial house; it just has to be tidier than anyone else's.

We can do whatever the hell we want, and as long as EU, Germany, Japan, UK, France, etc.....are in worse shape.......everyone will flock to the dollar and keep it alive.

You don't have to outrun the lion.
You just have to outrun your buddy.

---

I'm not saying all debt is bad or unnecessary…but the current expenditures are insane.

The US govt raises $5 trillion per year in revenue. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and interest on the debt cost $5 trillion per year. Everything else requires debt to pay for. Defense, State Dept, Agriculture, Education, NASA ... everything.

The level of inflation we've been dealing with is far outpacing wages. The idiotic Keynesian economists claim otherwise, but buying power is in major decline and that stems directly from printing money which causes inflation. We can't continue to go down the current path.

If debt really doesn't matter then you could print unlimited amounts of money. We know that doesn't work and countries like Venezuela have tried and it resulted in chaos.




They're gonna raise SS to age 70 which is 35 years before I turn 70. Im barely gonna get anything out of it after paying for a lifetime. It sucks ass man.

---

We should raise SS to 72 as full retirement.

Extending out the retirement age will slow the decline of the workforce by retaining our most highly skilled workers. That will also retain our most highly compensated workers (an incremental add to the wage tax base). More to the point, though, SS was not intended to be a two-decade long defined benefit plan. we waited way too long to start nudging it up. And nudging it up is indeed the way they will fix it. The worse the demographic tree looks, the more they'll have to nudge it up. You need X number of workers to pay for Y number of retirees......

I have no plan to retire to read books & watch bobbers in the creek. The stuff I like to do costs money.....

---

Us average life expectancy for a male is 73. Lifespan is also rapidly declining because of our diets and lack of exercise.

If they keep raising it then everyone who could qualify for it will be dead. So what the hell is the point of SS if the vast majority of people don't ever get it?

---

in 1935, when Social Security was enacted, life expectancy was 61.7 years.
in 1935, when Social Security was enacted, full retirement age was 65

Today, SS full retirement is 67.
Look at what's happened to life expectancy.

Full retirement age has not kept pace with life expectancy. Fix that, and you fix social security.

---

Haley said that, but she is a NeoCom. You a closet NeoCom, Whiterock?? : )

---

Beware the mixing of political metaphors...... NeoCon is a foreign policy epithet; SS is a domestic policy issue.

(wink)

---

Neoconservatism has domestic aspects too. Unfortunately, they are all based upon Keynesian economics with the corresponding results.

---

The policy makers have to balance a budget regardless whether they are looking to Keynes or Hayek for inspiration.

---

If they are inspired by Keynes, they will almost never balance the budget. Hayek would inspire more responsible governance.

---

"responsible governance." oxymoron much? (ha) This nation was founded on the notion that it is the nature of mankind NOT to have responsible governance, ergo our extraordinary constitutional limitations on government power.

as a matter of mathematics, small budget deficits (a percentage point or two) don't matter so much, as long as they don't exceed inflation (typically 2-3%). The inflation effectively services the debt, which is never "paid off" in the context of paying off a mortgage to own your house outright. There's always something that really does need doing that requires another bond right after you paid off the prior one. So the reality is, we really just manage debt by ratios (which right now are seriously out of whack).

---

Historically, that has been the case and the debt was more manageable, or at least seemed so, but it kept growing dramatically. Now, it's totally out of whack. The reality is that it always was out of whack considering how rapidly it grew. It's more obvious now that our national debt has become more astronomical & the politicians no longer have excuses. Amazingly, they don't make them anymore and the voters still don't hold them to account because too few people don't understand how dangerous it is and too many people get government checks and don't want to see those reduced or cut off. But a real solution will require some of that.

People don't realize that the insane debt is one of the main reasons for inflation being such a problem.

historian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

historian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

historian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

historian said:

---

Unfortunately, that is true. Social Security is the largest Ponzi scheme in history. They all have insane obligations that will not all be possible at some point. If you think our national debt is insane, look at our unfunded liabilities (lower right):

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

It is unsustainable and our incompetence Congress just voted to send another $61 billion of your grandkids' money to the Ukraine forever war.

---

They'll have to print money which will lead to even more inflation,

Inflation is legal counterfeiting and counterfeiting is criminal inflation. Central banking is a coordinated currency counterfeiting cartel that runs the world.

Milton Friedman said money printing is just like alcoholism: you feel good at first and then you eventually have the hangover. The same is true about inflation, every time there's a crisis you have to print an exponential amount of money because there's an exponential amount of liabilities from the last round of printing.

It will eventually hyperinflate into worthlessness if they continue doing this.

---

Remember, there is a method to the madness = Inflation services debt.\

And one more even less well understood concept. We do not have to maintain a terribly tidy financial house; it just has to be tidier than anyone else's.

We can do whatever the hell we want, and as long as EU, Germany, Japan, UK, France, etc.....are in worse shape.......everyone will flock to the dollar and keep it alive.

You don't have to outrun the lion.
You just have to outrun your buddy.

---

I'm not saying all debt is bad or unnecessary…but the current expenditures are insane.

The US govt raises $5 trillion per year in revenue. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and interest on the debt cost $5 trillion per year. Everything else requires debt to pay for. Defense, State Dept, Agriculture, Education, NASA ... everything.

The level of inflation we've been dealing with is far outpacing wages. The idiotic Keynesian economists claim otherwise, but buying power is in major decline and that stems directly from printing money which causes inflation. We can't continue to go down the current path.

If debt really doesn't matter then you could print unlimited amounts of money. We know that doesn't work and countries like Venezuela have tried and it resulted in chaos.




They're gonna raise SS to age 70 which is 35 years before I turn 70. Im barely gonna get anything out of it after paying for a lifetime. It sucks ass man.

---

We should raise SS to 72 as full retirement.

Extending out the retirement age will slow the decline of the workforce by retaining our most highly skilled workers. That will also retain our most highly compensated workers (an incremental add to the wage tax base). More to the point, though, SS was not intended to be a two-decade long defined benefit plan. we waited way too long to start nudging it up. And nudging it up is indeed the way they will fix it. The worse the demographic tree looks, the more they'll have to nudge it up. You need X number of workers to pay for Y number of retirees......

I have no plan to retire to read books & watch bobbers in the creek. The stuff I like to do costs money.....

---

Us average life expectancy for a male is 73. Lifespan is also rapidly declining because of our diets and lack of exercise.

If they keep raising it then everyone who could qualify for it will be dead. So what the hell is the point of SS if the vast majority of people don't ever get it?

---

in 1935, when Social Security was enacted, life expectancy was 61.7 years.
in 1935, when Social Security was enacted, full retirement age was 65

Today, SS full retirement is 67.
Look at what's happened to life expectancy.

Full retirement age has not kept pace with life expectancy. Fix that, and you fix social security.

---

Haley said that, but she is a NeoCom. You a closet NeoCom, Whiterock?? : )

---

Beware the mixing of political metaphors...... NeoCon is a foreign policy epithet; SS is a domestic policy issue.

(wink)

---

Neoconservatism has domestic aspects too. Unfortunately, they are all based upon Keynesian economics with the corresponding results.

---

The policy makers have to balance a budget regardless whether they are looking to Keynes or Hayek for inspiration.

---

If they are inspired by Keynes, they will almost never balance the budget. Hayek would inspire more responsible governance.

---

"responsible governance." oxymoron much? (ha) This nation was founded on the notion that it is the nature of mankind NOT to have responsible governance, ergo our extraordinary constitutional limitations on government power.

as a matter of mathematics, small budget deficits (a percentage point or two) don't matter so much, as long as they don't exceed inflation (typically 2-3%). The inflation effectively services the debt, which is never "paid off" in the context of paying off a mortgage to own your house outright. There's always something that really does need doing that requires another bond right after you paid off the prior one. So the reality is, we really just manage debt by ratios (which right now are seriously out of whack).

---

Historically, that has been the case and the debt was more manageable, or at least seemed so, but it kept growing dramatically. Now, it's totally out of whack. The reality is that it always was out of whack considering how rapidly it grew. It's more obvious now that our national debt has become more astronomical & the politicians no longer have excuses. Amazingly, they don't make them anymore and the voters still don't hold them to account because too few people don't understand how dangerous it is and too many people get government checks and don't want to see those reduced or cut off. But a real solution will require some of that.

People don't realize that the insane debt is one of the main reasons for inflation being such a problem.

---

Scale. The most underused word, that has the biggest impact.

I compare it to jump school. The hardest jump was the 30-foot tower. I remember after that saying "wow, 1250 feet is really going to be hard.". Black Hat told me, no it won't. Your mind doesn't have scale at 1250, it can't really understand how high you are. At 30-feet, your mind understands how high you are because the what you see has real scale.

I always remembered that. The debt has no scale. Just like the US Budget and economy have no scale. Without scale, there is little fear.

The numbers speak for themselves: foreign aid is not the reason for our debt. That doesn't mean that perhaps it shouldn't be reformed but eliminating all foreign aid will be barely noticeable when it comes to the annual deficits and total debt.

I used the word "Nazi" because you'd rhetoric literally resembles what the historic Nazis did. For example, the Jews did not betray Germany to cost them the war. The "stab in the back" myth was created by the German generals at the end of WWI to deflect blame from themselves when they deserve more of it (but not all), especially Ludendorff & Hindenburg. (Incidentally, both men played a role in Hitler's rise to power: Ludendorff in the Beer Hall Putsch & Hindenburg in Hitler's appointment as Chancellor.). Germany lost the war on the battlefield because they could not sustain it, fighting against almost everyone else in Europe simultaneously especially after the addition of fresh forces from the US and the seemingly endless resources from the US.

Grouping people together like "Jews" for blame is usually problematic because it's usually a sign of bigotry. We're there some Jews who behaved dishonorably during the war? Probably, but probably in the same proportions as Catholics, Lutherans, or atheists. Focusing on a single group is misleading & dangerous. The Jews were such a small percentage of the German population that the idea is absurd on the surface.

As for later events like the USS Liberty, that's more of a red herring in the context of 2024 events. And the question of Gazans today is a totally separate issue that has been addressed repeatedly. You choose to ignore that and keep bringing it up.

I'm not accusing you of being a Nazi. I'm warning you that your rhetoric is dangerously similar although you probably didn't realize it.

The truth of the matter is that these are very complex issues and we are not going to resolve them on any online forum.

You are correct about one thing: Israel is looking out for their own interests not the average American voter, just like every other nation does today and almost always has. They have no choice since they are surrounded by hostile nations that historically wanted to see their total annihilation. Like Hamas today, many Arabs want another Holocaust and the true terrorists (Hamas, Hezbollah, etc) keep trying to start it as they did on October 7. Thankfully, today several Arab governments are more sane and have decent relations with Israel because it's in their interest.

You attribute to me words and ideas I never used or even hinted at. For example, I never accused anyone in these boards of being domestic terrorists. That label rightfully belongs to the pro-Hamas mobs who ignorantly repeat their propaganda & slogans, not knowing or caring about the reality of history or recreate events. That is true mendacity.

Divestiture is another issue altogether and a reckless and dangerous one. It's been around for years and is motivated by lots of things but I usually see it advocated by Leftists who seem to be motivated by some sort of antisemitism. As I've said before, all forms of bigotry are irrational and cannot be reasonably justified.

Good point. That's why the debt situation is so dangerous. The numbers are so astronomical and general knowledge of economics is so pathetic that people don't pay much attention and choose not to hold politicians accountable.

Quote:

---

you completely miss the point. Cutting foreign aid out of the budget is not going to have any impact on the border whatsoever. Dems are not going to spend the savings to repel illegals at the border. All you accomplish is to reduce our influence abroad, which hastens the advance of a wide range of problems to our own borders, to include even more illegal aliens headed our way.

If you are giving out no aid, you have no leverage other than use of your military or use of sanctions (which hurts your own economy, too).

Isolationism sounds fine in theory, but it really sucks in practice.

---

The argument isn't for "isolationism" so much as it is for "regionalism". Just as we have no vested interest in what happens in Ukraine, we have a tremendous vested interest in what happens in Canada, Mexico, and the Panama Canal. Unfortunately, we gave the Canal away decades ago. It's easy to make the argument that what is going on in Canada under the Trudeau government is far worse for America than anything in Ukraine.

The reality is that we can no longer afford the role of Team America, Globocop. Your argument is one to protect the sacred cow in the budget that you and your daughter profit(ed) from. Everything must be cut - including social security and medicare - but as these are moral commitments to American citizens by governments that these citizens have paid for, these are the last to go.

historian said:

---

Good point. That's why the debt situation is so dangerous. The numbers are so astronomical and general knowledge of economics is so pathetic that people don't pay much attention and choose not to hold politicians accountable.

---

Without seeing how it all fits over a long period, we use 30 years as a standard financing period, it is very difficult to see the situation and how bad it is or not really. We just don't know and no one has those discussions.

In my opinion, it is extremely important we do it as a nation because ALL generations have a role in it whether they like it or not.

• We have older generations saying, I paid in I want my SS, even if they don't need it.
• We have younger generations saying I ain't doing what the Boomers did.
• Corporations moving out after building their wealth and marketshare on the back of the US population and market.
• Politicians making political based decisions with no basis in reality, on both sides.

If we all don't get on the same page, we are screwed. First step, everyone has to know the situation and what it means to them.

Not going to happen.. By the way, those are examples no value judgements.

It's curious you mention the 1990s: that's the last time we actually had some fiscal sanity resulting in a balanced budget and even surpluses for 2-3 years. We need to have that again. However, it's far more difficult now with increased political polarization and a national debt rapidly approaching $35 trillion (likely before the end of the year). The interest in that debt will soon be the largest annual expenditure if it's not already. That is unsustainable.

As for the laziness and entitlement attitudes of the younger generation, that's an entire separate issue. It often does seem like there are too many spoiled brats who expect too much from others and have little to no connection to reality. Thankfully, there are also plenty of younger people with a strong sense of responsibility, patriotism, concern for others, etc. I think a lot of it has to do with how they are raised. That's why it is imperative that we have strong family structures and an educational system to reinforce that. Unfortunately, we don't always have that & government education is now a big part of the problem.

historian said:

---

It's curious you mention the 1990s: that's the last time we actually had done fiscal sanity resulting in a balanced budget and even surpluses for 2-3 years. We need to have that again. However, it's far more difficult now with increased political polarization and a national debt rapidly approaching $35 trillion (likely before the end of the year). The interest in that debt will soon be the largest annual expenditure if it's not already. That is unsustainable.

As for the laziness and entitlement attitudes of the younger generation, that's an entire separate issue. It often does seem like there are too many spoiled brats who expect too much from others and have little to no connection to reality. Thankfully, there are also plenty of younger people with a strong sense of responsibility, patriotism, concern for others, etc. I think a lot of it has to do with how they are raised. That's why it is imperative that we have strong family structures and an educational system to reinforce that. Unfortunately, we don't always have that & government education is now a big part of the problem.

---

We are on the same page with the budgeting discussion. I don't even have problems with National Priorities that I may not agree with as long as it is completed following the process. Congress determine the priorities, not spending through Executive Orders or waiting for the Courts.

If SS and Medicare are important, they need to be National Priorities, but that means those that want them need to give up on some of THEIR wants, not cut what is important to the other side. Defense is always a good example. If the GOP wants Border, than add their and cut some Defense. As long as there is a real discussion and debate and Congress approves it, I am good. But set a Budget and PASS IT! Next election, I will deal with what I don't like.

What sucks is that the 50 somethings are the generation that is getting screwed. We were told to wait for your turn to have the nice schedules and the leadership positions, now when we are at that age. Everything is geared towards keeping the younger generation happy. I am talking the group just below the Boomers.

It's extremely frustrating that I am repeatedly gaslighted by people when I point out the incredible disparity of influence Israel has on the American government over the actual American tax payer. This disparity has never been more evident than over the last several weeks.

But my bloods boils when I get attacked and called "neo-nazi" or "member of the aryan brother" with the implication I am a terrorist and should be shunned and silenced in polite society by people who should be on my side.

I am on the front line taking bullets from the Zionists and friendly fire in the back from other conservatives for simply fighting to return control of our government to the American people over foreign interests.

I want AMERICAN children and AMERICAN grandchildren to at least have the same amount of opportunity for a brighter future as previous generations left for us... instead the decline in our quality of life and loss of freedom is accelerating and the individuals and foreign governments who we've been told are our best friends and allies appear to be emptying out the bank vault and peeling out in their getaway car with a trail of our increasingly worthless money left in their wake.

historian said:

---

It's curious you mention the 1990s: that's the last time we actually had done fiscal sanity resulting in a balanced budget and even surpluses for 2-3 years. We need to have that again. However, it's far more difficult now with increased political polarization and a national debt rapidly approaching $35 trillion (likely before the end of the year). The interest in that debt will soon be the largest annual expenditure if it's not already. That is unsustainable.

As for the laziness and entitlement attitudes of the younger generation, that's an entire separate issue. It often does seem like there are too many spoiled brats who expect too much from others and have little to no connection to reality. Thankfully, there are also plenty of younger people with a strong sense of responsibility, patriotism, concern for others, etc. I think a lot of it has to do with how they are raised. That's why it is imperative that we have strong family structures and an educational system to reinforce that. Unfortunately, we don't always have that & government education is now a big part of the problem.

---

That was before the Zionists planned out our next 20 year war that benefited only Israel and military contractors while it saddled Americans with $8trillion in debt and the patriot act. I cant really blame the younger generations for apathy. Everything seems fake and gay now.

Just your daily reminder that muslims are evil people who are worshipping a demonic religion. There is no chance for them to be peaceful people... their demonic god will not allow them to remain peaceful for long. They will only be peaceful long enough to trick & deceive their future victims. There is no other religion which has Jihad as a central tenet. Christianity teaches that God will bring judgement, and He will fight the battles in the end times. Islam teaches that every muslim must prove themselves worthy by waging Jihad throughout their lives. If they do not Jihad, then they will be rejected by their demonic god.

Islam is evil, and the muslims have declared war on the West... this declaration occurred long ago. It wasn't 9/11 or even during the first caliphate... it was declared by Mohammad himself (may he continue to burn in hell).

The 2 state solution will never happen because islam requires that all muslims wage war until they have completely dominated the entire world.

Muslim says openly to a reporter, Muslims are all one, and we are here for one thing, Jihad.

"We have armies, we have tanks, we have soldiers, what are my Muslim brothers waiting for, jihad has responsibility on you"

Assimilate? They were never intended to assimilate, work,… pic.twitter.com/SgxpcxZZrg

— Dane (@UltraDane) May 7, 2024

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

It's curious you mention the 1990s: that's the last time we actually had done fiscal sanity resulting in a balanced budget and even surpluses for 2-3 years. We need to have that again. However, it's far more difficult now with increased political polarization and a national debt rapidly approaching $35 trillion (likely before the end of the year). The interest in that debt will soon be the largest annual expenditure if it's not already. That is unsustainable.

As for the laziness and entitlement attitudes of the younger generation, that's an entire separate issue. It often does seem like there are too many spoiled brats who expect too much from others and have little to no connection to reality. Thankfully, there are also plenty of younger people with a strong sense of responsibility, patriotism, concern for others, etc. I think a lot of it has to do with how they are raised. That's why it is imperative that we have strong family structures and an educational system to reinforce that. Unfortunately, we don't always have that & government education is now a big part of the problem.

---

We are on the same page with the budgeting discussion. I don't even have problems with National Priorities that I may not agree with as long as it is completed following the process. Congress determine the priorities, not spending through Executive Orders or waiting for the Courts.

If SS and Medicare are important, they need to be National Priorities, but that means those that want them need to give up on some of THEIR wants, not cut what is important to the other side. Defense is always a good example. If the GOP wants Border, than add their and cut some Defense. As long as there is a real discussion and debate and Congress approves it, I am good. But set a Budget and PASS IT! Next election, I will deal with what I don't like.

What sucks is that the 50 somethings are the generation that is getting screwed. We were told to wait for your turn to have the nice schedules and the leadership positions, now when we are at that age. Everything is geared towards keeping the younger generation happy. I am talking the group just below the Boomers.

---

You are probably talking about our generation, known as Gen X. I am assuming.

I never called you any of those things. And I never gaslighted you or anyone. I try to avoid personal attacks. However, I did note some historical parallels to some of your comments. Those are well documented facts.

I understand the frustration. I'm often frustrated too, by miscommunication & misunderstanding. I also disagree with some of your arguments. That's normal.

historian said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

It's curious you mention the 1990s: that's the last time we actually had done fiscal sanity resulting in a balanced budget and even surpluses for 2-3 years. We need to have that again. However, it's far more difficult now with increased political polarization and a national debt rapidly approaching $35 trillion (likely before the end of the year). The interest in that debt will soon be the largest annual expenditure if it's not already. That is unsustainable.

As for the laziness and entitlement attitudes of the younger generation, that's an entire separate issue. It often does seem like there are too many spoiled brats who expect too much from others and have little to no connection to reality. Thankfully, there are also plenty of younger people with a strong sense of responsibility, patriotism, concern for others, etc. I think a lot of it has to do with how they are raised. That's why it is imperative that we have strong family structures and an educational system to reinforce that. Unfortunately, we don't always have that & government education is now a big part of the problem.

---

We are on the same page with the budgeting discussion. I don't even have problems with National Priorities that I may not agree with as long as it is completed following the process. Congress determine the priorities, not spending through Executive Orders or waiting for the Courts.

If SS and Medicare are important, they need to be National Priorities, but that means those that want them need to give up on some of THEIR wants, not cut what is important to the other side. Defense is always a good example. If the GOP wants Border, than add their and cut some Defense. As long as there is a real discussion and debate and Congress approves it, I am good. But set a Budget and PASS IT! Next election, I will deal with what I don't like.

What sucks is that the 50 somethings are the generation that is getting screwed. We were told to wait for your turn to have the nice schedules and the leadership positions, now when we are at that age. Everything is geared towards keeping the younger generation happy. I am talking the group just below the Boomers.

---

You are probably talking about our generation, known as Gen X. I am assuming.

---

Is that the one from 64ish-79ish? Yeah. They seem to have missed the benefits of the Boomer age and been too old to get the Millennial coddling. They seem to have had to put their time in, only to have to treat Millennials with kid gloves when they reached the "management age" and their kids never grew up. Those poor Sons-of-*****es get screwed by everyone!

I was thinking 50s - 60s but close enough.

historian said:

---

I was thinking 50s - 60s but close enough.

---

pretty sure he was saying folks born between 1964 and 1979, not folks between the ages of 64 and 79 years old

historian said:

---

I never called you any of those things. And I never gaslighted you or anyone. I try to avoid personal attacks. However, I did note some historical parallels to some of your comments. Those are well documented facts.

I understand the frustration. I'm often frustrated too, by miscommunication & misunderstanding. I also disagree with some of your arguments. That's normal.

---

Fair enough.

I apologize for the angry post directed at you.

That makes sense.

I apologize if my frustration seemed like an attack.

I much prefer to keep these discussions civil.

ShooterTX said:

---

historian said:

---

I was thinking 50s - 60s but close enough.

---

pretty sure he was saying folks born between 1964 and 1979, not folks between the ages of 64 and 79 years old

---

Thanks, yeah the Generation.

historian said:

---

I apologize if my frustration seemed like an attack.

I much prefer to keep these discussions civil.

---

Thank you!