Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FlBear: 'My question is with that size ships using that waterway why wasn't the bridge pier protection more substantial? You have Panamax container ships, you would think they would have something more."

Because to Democrats, and Baltimore is run by Democrats, "Infrastructure" never means actually repairing roads or making bridges stronger, or planning ways to keep people safe. Democrats spend tax money, "infrastructure" money, on DEI and revisionist history and propaganda.

But don't worry, Hair-sniffer-in-chief Biden promises tons of federal money will be pouring into Baltimore. Some of it might even be spent on rebuilding the bridge, but expecting improvements, especially for real safety, that's not in the cards.

---

Really, you always bring it to partisan politics . have you ever been to Baltimore?

---

Yes, actually. Sounds like you haven't been there in at least a decade.

Serious question. Did you notice what was in Biden's "infrastructure" bill?

---

I have been there within the year

---

My son did his vessel traffic training at Port of Baltimore. He spoke highly of the course and the Port itself.

He questioned why the ship didn't drop anchor when they initially lost power.

---

I understand the ship dropped anchor, but too late. Sound like they did not practice for such situations.

Kind of like the guy who has a fire extinguisher but no idea where it is, and panics when he really needs it.

---

Yeah. Sounds like it happens sometimes and they should be training for it. My understanding is that Singapore is not an easy place to flag a ship, they maintain tough standards. I am just going by what I read on the ship and question people I know in the business are saying from the boat side.

Just reporting Navy supplying 4 heavy lift cranes to clear channel. Love when Nation comes together to solve a problem. Our best trait and skill-set.

90sBear said:

---

In construction (as with a lot of things) generally you get to pick two of the following:
Built well
Built fast
Built inexpensively

In addition, this tweet you posted is of a ship constructed during war time with a war time economy. That's not really a fair comparison either.

Yes there are newer technologies that allow some things to go faster, but that's counterbalanced with higher safety standards for other things which slows things down. Some technologies, or rather the need for them, slow down the building process.

78 men died during the construction of the Grand Coulee Dam. Lots of changes have happened over the last 80 years that make industrial work sites safer, but with safety often comes the sacrifice of time. Here are the death tolls from a few more notable projects:

https://interestingengineering.com/lists/some-of-the-deadliest-construction-projects-in-history

---

Some good points.

Also, the post about the speed of construction during WW2 misses the fact that there were more amputees in the US as a result of industrial accidents than were suffered by the troops fighting the war.

The death toll was pretty high as well. I don't have numbers available but know it was high.

Safety was not a factor when it came to factories, building ships, repairing ships, etc. during a war.

Also, the quality of the "victory" ships was not that great. Certainly not of the type that was expected to be used for decades. They were built fast to serve during the war and it was expected they would all be scrapped soon after the war once long term cargo ships were built.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FlBear: 'My question is with that size ships using that waterway why wasn't the bridge pier protection more substantial? You have Panamax container ships, you would think they would have something more."

Because to Democrats, and Baltimore is run by Democrats, "Infrastructure" never means actually repairing roads or making bridges stronger, or planning ways to keep people safe. Democrats spend tax money, "infrastructure" money, on DEI and revisionist history and propaganda.

But don't worry, Hair-sniffer-in-chief Biden promises tons of federal money will be pouring into Baltimore. Some of it might even be spent on rebuilding the bridge, but expecting improvements, especially for real safety, that's not in the cards.

---

Really, you always bring it to partisan politics . have you ever been to Baltimore?

---

Yes, actually. Sounds like you haven't been there in at least a decade.

Serious question. Did you notice what was in Biden's "infrastructure" bill?

---

I have been there within the year

---

My son did his vessel traffic training at Port of Baltimore. He spoke highly of the course and the Port itself.

He questioned why the ship didn't drop anchor when they initially lost power.

---

I understand the ship dropped anchor, but too late. Sound like they did not practice for such situations.

Kind of like the guy who has a fire extinguisher but no idea where it is, and panics when he really needs it.

---

Yeah. Sounds like it happens sometimes and they should be training for it. My understanding is that Singapore is not an easy place to flag a ship, they maintain tough standards. I am just going by what I read on the ship and question people I know in the business are saying from the boat side.

---

It may just be something they never thought could happen. When I was at Reliant Energy, we had semi-annual Hurricane drills; who would be sent where, what would be done to establish communication continuity, who would coordinate truck traffic to fix downed polls/transformers, testing alerts for step-down stations, etc.

TXU never did that, but they did practice more than we did for wind storms, so you prep for situations you think could happen. Losing power immediately after leaving dock probably seemed likely enough to practice for, and when you think of the tonnage that ship carried, in hindsight it's obvious they should have planned for it.

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FlBear: 'My question is with that size ships using that waterway why wasn't the bridge pier protection more substantial? You have Panamax container ships, you would think they would have something more."

Because to Democrats, and Baltimore is run by Democrats, "Infrastructure" never means actually repairing roads or making bridges stronger, or planning ways to keep people safe. Democrats spend tax money, "infrastructure" money, on DEI and revisionist history and propaganda.

But don't worry, Hair-sniffer-in-chief Biden promises tons of federal money will be pouring into Baltimore. Some of it might even be spent on rebuilding the bridge, but expecting improvements, especially for real safety, that's not in the cards.

---

Really, you always bring it to partisan politics . have you ever been to Baltimore?

---

Yes, actually. Sounds like you haven't been there in at least a decade.

Serious question. Did you notice what was in Biden's "infrastructure" bill?

---

I have been there within the year

---

My son did his vessel traffic training at Port of Baltimore. He spoke highly of the course and the Port itself.

He questioned why the ship didn't drop anchor when they initially lost power.

---

I understand the ship dropped anchor, but too late. Sound like they did not practice for such situations.

Kind of like the guy who has a fire extinguisher but no idea where it is, and panics when he really needs it.

---

Yeah. Sounds like it happens sometimes and they should be training for it. My understanding is that Singapore is not an easy place to flag a ship, they maintain tough standards. I am just going by what I read on the ship and question people I know in the business are saying from the boat side.

---

It may just be something they never thought could happen. When I was at Reliant Energy, we has semi-annual Hurricane drills; who would be sent where, what would be done to establish communication continuity, who would coordinate truck traffic to fix downed polls/transformers, testing alerts for step-down stations, etc.

TXU never did that, but they did practice more than we did for wind storms, so you prep for situations you think could happen. Losing power immediately after leaving dock probably seemed likely enough to practice for, and when you think of the tonnage that ship carried, in hindsight it's obvious they should have planned for it.

---

Dead on. I will bet it is now on the training check list.

cowboycwr said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FlBear: 'My question is with that size ships using that waterway why wasn't the bridge pier protection more substantial? You have Panamax container ships, you would think they would have something more."

Because to Democrats, and Baltimore is run by Democrats, "Infrastructure" never means actually repairing roads or making bridges stronger, or planning ways to keep people safe. Democrats spend tax money, "infrastructure" money, on DEI and revisionist history and propaganda.

But don't worry, Hair-sniffer-in-chief Biden promises tons of federal money will be pouring into Baltimore. Some of it might even be spent on rebuilding the bridge, but expecting improvements, especially for real safety, that's not in the cards.

---

Really, you always bring it to partisan politics . have you ever been to Baltimore?

---

Yes, actually. Sounds like you haven't been there in at least a decade.

Serious question. Did you notice what was in Biden's "infrastructure" bill?

---

I have been there within the year

---

My son did his vessel traffic training at Port of Baltimore. He spoke highly of the course and the Port itself.

He questioned why the ship didn't drop anchor when they initially lost power.

---

I understand the ship dropped anchor, but too late. Sound like they did not practice for such situations.

Kind of like the guy who has a fire extinguisher but no idea where it is, and panics when he really needs it.

---

Yeah. Sounds like it happens sometimes and they should be training for it. My understanding is that Singapore is not an easy place to flag a ship, they maintain tough standards. I am just going by what I read on the ship and question people I know in the business are saying from the boat side.

---

It may just be something they never thought could happen. When I was at Reliant Energy, we has semi-annual Hurricane drills; who would be sent where, what would be done to establish communication continuity, who would coordinate truck traffic to fix downed polls/transformers, testing alerts for step-down stations, etc.

TXU never did that, but they did practice more than we did for wind storms, so you prep for situations you think could happen. Losing power immediately after leaving dock probably seemed likely enough to practice for, and when you think of the tonnage that ship carried, in hindsight it's obvious they should have planned for it.

---

I would think that the last 30 years have shown us that even the smallest possible outcomes need to be planned for. Or the highly unlikely.

9/11 or other terror attacks
Hurricanes that go to New York
Hurricanes out of the "normal" season.
Massive flooding
extreme, prolonged freezes
ships getting stuck in canals
ships hitting bridges


etc. As I am sure we could make a list of about 40 things here

---

Copy that...

Cost of recovering is going up dramatically. Infrastructure is ridiculously high. 2nd to Sports salaries...

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FlBear: 'My question is with that size ships using that waterway why wasn't the bridge pier protection more substantial? You have Panamax container ships, you would think they would have something more."

Because to Democrats, and Baltimore is run by Democrats, "Infrastructure" never means actually repairing roads or making bridges stronger, or planning ways to keep people safe. Democrats spend tax money, "infrastructure" money, on DEI and revisionist history and propaganda.

But don't worry, Hair-sniffer-in-chief Biden promises tons of federal money will be pouring into Baltimore. Some of it might even be spent on rebuilding the bridge, but expecting improvements, especially for real safety, that's not in the cards.

---

Really, you always bring it to partisan politics . have you ever been to Baltimore?

---

Yes, actually. Sounds like you haven't been there in at least a decade.

Serious question. Did you notice what was in Biden's "infrastructure" bill?

---

I have been there within the year

---

My son did his vessel traffic training at Port of Baltimore. He spoke highly of the course and the Port itself.

He questioned why the ship didn't drop anchor when they initially lost power.

---

I understand the ship dropped anchor, but too late. Sound like they did not practice for such situations.

Kind of like the guy who has a fire extinguisher but no idea where it is, and panics when he really needs it.

---

Yeah. Sounds like it happens sometimes and they should be training for it. My understanding is that Singapore is not an easy place to flag a ship, they maintain tough standards. I am just going by what I read on the ship and question people I know in the business are saying from the boat side.

---

Yes. Definitely not a flag of convenience like most of the African continent. Nowhere near as tough as here but way tougher than Liberia where many ships are flagged.

KaiBear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FlBear: 'My question is with that size ships using that waterway why wasn't the bridge pier protection more substantial? You have Panamax container ships, you would think they would have something more."

Because to Democrats, and Baltimore is run by Democrats, "Infrastructure" never means actually repairing roads or making bridges stronger, or planning ways to keep people safe. Democrats spend tax money, "infrastructure" money, on DEI and revisionist history and propaganda.

But don't worry, Hair-sniffer-in-chief Biden promises tons of federal money will be pouring into Baltimore. Some of it might even be spent on rebuilding the bridge, but expecting improvements, especially for real safety, that's not in the cards.

---

Really, you always bring it to partisan politics . have you ever been to Baltimore?

---

still wondering LG?

---

LOL


If I recall correctly you have mentioned visiting Baltimore.

Said parts of it were very nice.

Hopefully I will never have the opportunity to find out .

For that matter never want to revisit tNYC, Oakland, San Francisco, Memphis, Philadelphia, New Orleans , Saint Louis , or Detroit.

---

I will miss some of them. Philly, Detroit, Memphis and New Orleans always stood out for their unique style, food and personalities.

---

you know.. yes you are correct. I have spend a lot of time in Baltimore (son playing lacrosse). Son in law is from Baltimore, also a lax bro. I always try to find the positives in cities. Love Philly if you know were to go. I have enjoyed Detroit . I go to NOLA at least a several times a year. just love it. yes, it has gotten a little dicey . gotta know where you are.

---

Sincerely impressed.

You live the good life.

I enjoy traveling as well ( going to Texas and Wyoming this month ) however since the birth of our grandsons we prefer to be with them instead of international excursions..

---

I get that, I don't have any grandkids yet, so, yes, things will change. Prolly not too far off.

Does anyone remember a similar bridge disaster in Tampa in 1980? The Sunshine Skyway was built to replace it & opened in 1987.

It's going to take 10 years to make sure all the work is appropriately divided among the unqualified blek, trainy, illegal alien contractors.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

It's going to take 10 years to make sure all the work is appropriately divided among the unqualified blek, trainy, illegal alien contractors.

---

Or maybe they just want to build a bridge that doesn't break this time...

It should not take 10 years to build a new bridge. However if the government involved it will be guaranteed to cost too much and take too long.

Bestweekeverr said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

It's going to take 10 years to make sure all the work is appropriately divided among the unqualified blek, trainy, illegal alien contractors.

---

Or maybe they just want to build a bridge that doesn't break this time...

---

The bridge did not fail or break. It was hit by a 120,000 DWT ship. Not many bridges can handle that hit, especially steel bridges.

Thanks. Strange that the new bridge wouldn't be high enough. Are those ships also new? If so the. It makes some sense.

historian said:

---

Thanks. Strange that the new bridge wouldn't be high enough. Are those ships also new? If so the. It makes some sense.

---

Yes, in the last 30 years ships have gotten much larger. Look at Cruise ships. It is cost prohibitive to rebuild, if they choose to go that route they would construct a Port outside the Skyway to handle the big ones.

Right, now, the PANAMAX's go to Miami and then items are loaded on regional size ships. Port Tampa Bay is not big on containers, mostly fuel and aggregate. They are big and growing

Thanks

historian said:

---

Thanks

---

More that you ever wanted to know about the TB supply chain... : )

historian said:

---

Thanks. Strange that the new bridge wouldn't be high enough. Are those ships also new? If so the. It makes some sense.

---

As already said yes the ships are bigger. It is why they had to basically build a second Panama Canal so they could fit.

Bestweekeverr said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

It's going to take 10 years to make sure all the work is appropriately divided among the unqualified blek, trainy, illegal alien contractors.

---

Or maybe they just want to build a bridge that doesn't break this time...

---

I doubt there is a bridge that could sustain a direct hit like that and not at least partially break. That is why on even the best built ones they have those barriers in front of them.

It isn't about the quality of construction but comes down to basic physics.

But 10 years is way too long and it should not take that long.

cowboycwr said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

It's going to take 10 years to make sure all the work is appropriately divided among the unqualified blek, trainy, illegal alien contractors.

---

Or maybe they just want to build a bridge that doesn't break this time...

---

I doubt there is a bridge that could sustain a direct hit like that and not at least partially break. That is why on even the best built ones they have those barriers in front of them.

It isn't about the quality of construction but comes down to basic physics.

But 10 years is way too long and it should not take that long.

---

That should be a 4 to 5 year project. Cuomo Bridge over the Hudson was 5 years. Ohio River Bridge was 2 years construction. New Sunshine Skyway was 7 years. All interstate bridges. Baltimore will have urban traffic issues to deal with.






New bridges are expected to have a 100 year lifespan.

I don't know how long construction took, but Charleston, SC built a new bridge some time ago to replace the Cooper River Bridge. The Arthur Ravenal bridge is very nice and modern. Here's a photo of the new with the old:

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

Thanks

---

More that you ever wanted to know about the TB supply chain... : )

---

Actually, I am somewhat fascinated by such things.

historian said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

Thanks

---

More that you ever wanted to know about the TB supply chain... : )

---

Actually, I am somewhat fascinated by such things.

---

Transportation and logistics is what I work in. Grandfather drove trains, other GF was Merchant Mariner, and Dad had a gas station. Grew up with transportation. Interesting from operations to financing.

Joe Biden’s brain malfunctions yet again when speaking in Baltimore.

He is cognitively cooked. pic.twitter.com/ujP7GRmfhv

— Daniel Baldwin (@baldwin_daniel_) April 5, 2024

Biden has been like that for years, even before becoming Vice President. Obviously, it's much worse now.

How does someone with your religious viewpoint support a Trump ?

historian said:

---

Biden has been like that for years, even before becoming Vice President. Obviously, it's much worse now.

---

It's more publicized now! Many overlook it when they cast their vote.

Lesser of evils. That's they way I have voted in every presidential election of my life. The only exception was 1984. Also, I ignore all the TDS propaganda. It's mostly lies and completely ignores the greater problems on the other side. Most of the fascist blather accusing Trump of anything is really an indictment of Obama, Biden, the Clinton's, etc.

I have to hold my nose with Trump because he has real moral issues. But again they are exaggerated and nothing compared to Biden who aggressively pushes the mass murder of babies in the womb, the trans cult & their obsession with perverting & mutilating children, endless debt & economic chaos, a crime wave that is killing Americans, an open border that is killing Americans, a double standard that perverts justice, etc, etc, etc. In a moral sense, the fascists make Trump look like a saint.

My biggest concern with Trump is his narcissism which is very off putting. Once again, he posed in comparison to the Clinton's, Obama, Biden, AOC, & every other prominent Leftist.

If it makes you feel any better, I was for DeSantis until he ended his campaign.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

Jack and DP said:

---

The mayor of Baltimore on white people he deems racist: "Me being in this position means that their way of thinking, their way of life of being comfortable while everyone else suffers, is at risk. And they should be afraid because that’s my purpose in life.”

Not only is he…

— The Honorable Matt Walsh (@MattWalshBlog) March 28, 2024

---

So a racist is calling "some" white people racist.

That is a shocker.

---

Weak people try to Punish the many who have never harmed them because they are way too weak and incompetent to Punish the very few who they think have

BREAKING: A NY tugboat captain has reported to @gCaptain “container ship APL QINGDAO lost power while transiting New York harbor. They had 3 escort tugs but 3 more were needed to bring her under control. They regained power & were brought to anchor near the verrazano bridge” pic.twitter.com/Z2IP04xmLs

— John Ʌ Konrad V (@johnkonrad) April 7, 2024