You forget one important point about people marrying early a few generations ago: life expectancy was significantly lower. Today the be average life expectancy for women is over 80 and for men almost as high. Also, the issue is not two teenagers about the same age getting married. That's legal now, although it might require parental permission.

The problem is an adult molesting a child several (or many) years younger in a casual encounter. A huge problem with modern culture is treating sex casually so that people seem to think they have a right to engage in sex with anyone they want under almost any circumstances. The moral & legal issue is when it involves underage children lacking the maturity to consent rationally when they hardly understand what they are doing. Added to this are the professional lapses such as teachers having sex with their students of people filming each other and posting the photos online.

Jack Bauer said:

---

Women are more likely than men to get seriously injured in car crashes—in part because vehicle safety features haven’t been designed for them.

I introduced a bill to make sure vehicle crash tests use female dummies too—it makes a difference for safety & is just common sense.

— Senator Patty Murray (@PattyMurray) May 19, 2024

A woman like this?

---

Regressive Idiocracy perfectly defined.

ShooterTX said:

---

Just remember that Waco thinks this guy is totally normal and totally sane.

Is anyone really surprised that this wacko moron is supporting Biden?

Typical Biden’s voter, two fries short of a happy meal. pic.twitter.com/0Za5RlM4rE

— I Meme Therefore I Am 🇺🇸 (@ImMeme0) May 20, 2024

---

That's actually Pedo47 isn't it?

historian said:

---

You forget one important point about people marrying early a few generations ago: life expectancy was significantly lower. Today the be average life expectancy for women is over 80 and for men almost as high. Also, the issue is not two teenagers about the same age getting married. That's legal now, although it might require parental permission.

The problem is an adult molesting a child several (or many) years younger in a casual encounter. A huge problem with modern culture is treating sex casually so that people seem to think they have a right to engage in sex with anyone they want under almost any circumstances. The moral & legal issue is when it involves underage children lacking the maturity to consent rationally when they hardly understand what they are doing. Added to this are the professional lapses such as teachers having sex with their students of people filming each other and posting the photos online.

---

See I told you there was an interesting discussion here.

Your teacher issue is multi faceted. A 22 year old teacher having sex with an 18 yr old senior isn't particularly disgusting from an age perspective (18 year olds date 22 year olds fairly frequently) but it's a massive abuse of power/position.

You mentioned age of consent so when a 14 year old robs and kills someone we often treat them as an adult. Are they an adult only for that specific situation?

FTR I agree my kid (16 now) was a moron at 14 and definitely not an adult and he incredibly mature.

The point about life expectancy is a good one. People live longer so the need for pairing and procreation is not as great.

So you said the problem is an adult molesting a child; for the sake of discussion what's an adult and what's a child? I mean I think we all agree a 30 year old having sex with a 12 year old is gross and immoral as well as illegal and did I mentioned disgusting. So where is that line for you?

nein51 said:

---

historian said:

---

You forget one important point about people marrying early a few generations ago: life expectancy was significantly lower. Today the be average life expectancy for women is over 80 and for men almost as high. Also, the issue is not two teenagers about the same age getting married. That's legal now, although it might require parental permission.

The problem is an adult molesting a child several (or many) years younger in a casual encounter. A huge problem with modern culture is treating sex casually so that people seem to think they have a right to engage in sex with anyone they want under almost any circumstances. The moral & legal issue is when it involves underage children lacking the maturity to consent rationally when they hardly understand what they are doing. Added to this are the professional lapses such as teachers having sex with their students of people filming each other and posting the photos online.

---

See I told you there was an interesting discussion here.

Your teacher issue is multi faceted. A 22 year old teacher having sex with an 18 yr old senior isn't particularly disgusting from an age perspective (18 year olds date 22 year olds fairly frequently) but it's a massive abuse of power/position.

You mentioned age of consent so when a 14 year old robs and kills someone we often treat them as an adult. Are they an adult only for that specific situation?

FTR I agree my kid (16 now) was a moron at 14 and definitely not an adult and he incredibly mature.

The point about life expectancy is a good one. People live longer so the need for pairing and procreation is not as great.

So you said the problem is an adult molesting a child; for the sake of discussion what's an adult and what's a child? I mean I think we all agree a 30 year old having sex with a 12 year old is gross and immoral as well as illegal and did I mentioned disgusting. So where is that line for you?

---

rather than trying to find the fine line between barely acceptable and straight degeneracy... maybe focus on actual morality?

The current laws are just fine, for everyone who isn't obsessed with child sex. If you are actually asking these questions, you should probably talk with a therapist. Maybe the degenerates in our society should focus more time on encouraging kids to NOT have sex until marriage... rather than teaching them all the current forms of degenerate behavior? Let's focus less on if it's legal for a 14 year old to have sex with a 18 year old... and more on teaching teenagers to control their emotions, hormones and behavior.

4th and Inches said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

nein51 said:

---

historian said:

---

You forget one important point about people marrying early a few generations ago: life expectancy was significantly lower. Today the be average life expectancy for women is over 80 and for men almost as high. Also, the issue is not two teenagers about the same age getting married. That's legal now, although it might require parental permission.

The problem is an adult molesting a child several (or many) years younger in a casual encounter. A huge problem with modern culture is treating sex casually so that people seem to think they have a right to engage in sex with anyone they want under almost any circumstances. The moral & legal issue is when it involves underage children lacking the maturity to consent rationally when they hardly understand what they are doing. Added to this are the professional lapses such as teachers having sex with their students of people filming each other and posting the photos online.

---

See I told you there was an interesting discussion here.

Your teacher issue is multi faceted. A 22 year old teacher having sex with an 18 yr old senior isn't particularly disgusting from an age perspective (18 year olds date 22 year olds fairly frequently) but it's a massive abuse of power/position.

You mentioned age of consent so when a 14 year old robs and kills someone we often treat them as an adult. Are they an adult only for that specific situation?

FTR I agree my kid (16 now) was a moron at 14 and definitely not an adult and he incredibly mature.

The point about life expectancy is a good one. People live longer so the need for pairing and procreation is not as great.

So you said the problem is an adult molesting a child; for the sake of discussion what's an adult and what's a child? I mean I think we all agree a 30 year old having sex with a 12 year old is gross and immoral as well as illegal and did I mentioned disgusting. So where is that line for you?

---

rather than trying to find the fine line between barely acceptable and straight degeneracy... maybe focus on actual morality?

The current laws are just fine, for everyone who isn't obsessed with child sex. If you are actually asking these questions, you should probably talk with a therapist. Maybe the degenerates in our society should focus more time on encouraging kids to NOT have sex until marriage... rather than teaching them all the current forms of degenerate behavior? Let's focus less on if it's legal for a 14 year old to have sex with a 18 year old... and more on teaching teenagers to control their emotions, hormones and behavior.

---

the law needs some flexibility so a kid who has been dating a 16 yr old at 17 doesnt suddenly end up with a sat rape case when he turn 18 because the parents of the girl dont like him.. true story, he is a registered sex offender now over it.

---

I agree with his overall principle but I also live in reality which is your point. Both are excellent points and neither should be easily dismissed.

Always be wary of a simple solution to a complex problem.

ShooterTX said:

---

nein51 said:

---

historian said:

---

You forget one important point about people marrying early a few generations ago: life expectancy was significantly lower. Today the be average life expectancy for women is over 80 and for men almost as high. Also, the issue is not two teenagers about the same age getting married. That's legal now, although it might require parental permission.

The problem is an adult molesting a child several (or many) years younger in a casual encounter. A huge problem with modern culture is treating sex casually so that people seem to think they have a right to engage in sex with anyone they want under almost any circumstances. The moral & legal issue is when it involves underage children lacking the maturity to consent rationally when they hardly understand what they are doing. Added to this are the professional lapses such as teachers having sex with their students of people filming each other and posting the photos online.

---

See I told you there was an interesting discussion here.

Your teacher issue is multi faceted. A 22 year old teacher having sex with an 18 yr old senior isn't particularly disgusting from an age perspective (18 year olds date 22 year olds fairly frequently) but it's a massive abuse of power/position.

You mentioned age of consent so when a 14 year old robs and kills someone we often treat them as an adult. Are they an adult only for that specific situation?

FTR I agree my kid (16 now) was a moron at 14 and definitely not an adult and he incredibly mature.

The point about life expectancy is a good one. People live longer so the need for pairing and procreation is not as great.

So you said the problem is an adult molesting a child; for the sake of discussion what's an adult and what's a child? I mean I think we all agree a 30 year old having sex with a 12 year old is gross and immoral as well as illegal and did I mentioned disgusting. So where is that line for you?

---

rather than trying to find the fine line between barely acceptable and straight degeneracy... maybe focus on actual morality?

The current laws are just fine, for everyone who isn't obsessed with child sex. If you are actually asking these questions, you should probably talk with a therapist. Maybe the degenerates in our society should focus more time on encouraging kids to NOT have sex until marriage... rather than teaching them all the current forms of degenerate behavior? Let's focus less on if it's legal for a 14 year old to have sex with a 18 year old... and more on teaching teenagers to control their emotions, hormones and behavior.

---

In the history of the world your last sentence hasn't worked. I agree that is the correct expected outcome.

I don't need a therapist.

Let's just say your way doesn't work, people still have sex, there need to be defined rules for a functioning society. For thousands of years those rules allowed things we no longer allow for, that's progress.

nein51 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

nein51 said:

---

historian said:

---

You forget one important point about people marrying early a few generations ago: life expectancy was significantly lower. Today the be average life expectancy for women is over 80 and for men almost as high. Also, the issue is not two teenagers about the same age getting married. That's legal now, although it might require parental permission.

The problem is an adult molesting a child several (or many) years younger in a casual encounter. A huge problem with modern culture is treating sex casually so that people seem to think they have a right to engage in sex with anyone they want under almost any circumstances. The moral & legal issue is when it involves underage children lacking the maturity to consent rationally when they hardly understand what they are doing. Added to this are the professional lapses such as teachers having sex with their students of people filming each other and posting the photos online.

---

See I told you there was an interesting discussion here.

Your teacher issue is multi faceted. A 22 year old teacher having sex with an 18 yr old senior isn't particularly disgusting from an age perspective (18 year olds date 22 year olds fairly frequently) but it's a massive abuse of power/position.

You mentioned age of consent so when a 14 year old robs and kills someone we often treat them as an adult. Are they an adult only for that specific situation?

FTR I agree my kid (16 now) was a moron at 14 and definitely not an adult and he incredibly mature.

The point about life expectancy is a good one. People live longer so the need for pairing and procreation is not as great.

So you said the problem is an adult molesting a child; for the sake of discussion what's an adult and what's a child? I mean I think we all agree a 30 year old having sex with a 12 year old is gross and immoral as well as illegal and did I mentioned disgusting. So where is that line for you?

---

rather than trying to find the fine line between barely acceptable and straight degeneracy... maybe focus on actual morality?

The current laws are just fine, for everyone who isn't obsessed with child sex. If you are actually asking these questions, you should probably talk with a therapist. Maybe the degenerates in our society should focus more time on encouraging kids to NOT have sex until marriage... rather than teaching them all the current forms of degenerate behavior? Let's focus less on if it's legal for a 14 year old to have sex with a 18 year old... and more on teaching teenagers to control their emotions, hormones and behavior.

---

In the history of the world your last sentence hasn't worked. I agree that is the correct expected outcome.

I don't need a therapist.

Let's just say your way doesn't work, people still have sex, there need to be defined rules for a functioning society. For thousands of years those rules allowed things we no longer allow for, that's progress.

---

OK... how about this...

It should always be illegal for a teacher of any age to have sex with a student in high school. Forget about age. If a teacher is found to have had sex with a student, that teacher should be facing jail time.

There is NO excuse for a teacher, who should be considered a full grown adult, to have sex with a student.

At the college level, it should not be a criminal case as both should be considered adults... but in high school, there is just no excuse. If you can't deal with that, then don't become a high school teacher. And the argument that we need more teachers is just going to be ridiculous. No one needs a teacher who is only there because they don't have to worry about going to jail because they can't control themselves.

I am sad for the 17 year old kid... but he should have known that he was playing with fire. If you know the girls parents don't like you... and you have sex with her anyway... what the hell do you think is going to happen? Are you saying that the boy was raped by the girl? Good luck convincing anyone of that one. Do I think he should be a registered sex offender... no. But I remember my father and one of my coaches warning me that "16 will get you 20". It was a very, very common quote back in the 80s. This boys parents failed him miserably, if they never warned him of the dangers of having sex with your girlfriend.

Also, i forgot to address your last line. No, for thousands of years, if a young girl was discovered to have had sex with a man before marriage... the girls family would either force the man to marry the girl, or they might murder him. In many cultures throughout history, the mans execution at the hands of the family would have been considered justified. Perhaps you have heard or read about duels in England or the family feuds in colonial America. Many times, there was just such a situation that had occurred which lead to either a feud or a duel.

So no, young kids having sex outside of marriage has never been acceptable in most societies & cultures.

ShooterTX said:

---

nein51 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

nein51 said:

---

historian said:

---

You forget one important point about people marrying early a few generations ago: life expectancy was significantly lower. Today the be average life expectancy for women is over 80 and for men almost as high. Also, the issue is not two teenagers about the same age getting married. That's legal now, although it might require parental permission.

The problem is an adult molesting a child several (or many) years younger in a casual encounter. A huge problem with modern culture is treating sex casually so that people seem to think they have a right to engage in sex with anyone they want under almost any circumstances. The moral & legal issue is when it involves underage children lacking the maturity to consent rationally when they hardly understand what they are doing. Added to this are the professional lapses such as teachers having sex with their students of people filming each other and posting the photos online.

---

See I told you there was an interesting discussion here.

Your teacher issue is multi faceted. A 22 year old teacher having sex with an 18 yr old senior isn't particularly disgusting from an age perspective (18 year olds date 22 year olds fairly frequently) but it's a massive abuse of power/position.

You mentioned age of consent so when a 14 year old robs and kills someone we often treat them as an adult. Are they an adult only for that specific situation?

FTR I agree my kid (16 now) was a moron at 14 and definitely not an adult and he incredibly mature.

The point about life expectancy is a good one. People live longer so the need for pairing and procreation is not as great.

So you said the problem is an adult molesting a child; for the sake of discussion what's an adult and what's a child? I mean I think we all agree a 30 year old having sex with a 12 year old is gross and immoral as well as illegal and did I mentioned disgusting. So where is that line for you?

---

rather than trying to find the fine line between barely acceptable and straight degeneracy... maybe focus on actual morality?

The current laws are just fine, for everyone who isn't obsessed with child sex. If you are actually asking these questions, you should probably talk with a therapist. Maybe the degenerates in our society should focus more time on encouraging kids to NOT have sex until marriage... rather than teaching them all the current forms of degenerate behavior? Let's focus less on if it's legal for a 14 year old to have sex with a 18 year old... and more on teaching teenagers to control their emotions, hormones and behavior.

---

In the history of the world your last sentence hasn't worked. I agree that is the correct expected outcome.

I don't need a therapist.

Let's just say your way doesn't work, people still have sex, there need to be defined rules for a functioning society. For thousands of years those rules allowed things we no longer allow for, that's progress.

---

OK... how about this...

It should always be illegal for a teacher of any age to have sex with a student in high school. Forget about age. If a teacher is found to have had sex with a student, that teacher should be facing jail time.

There is NO excuse for a teacher, who should be considered a full grown adult, to have sex with a student.

At the college level, it should not be a criminal case as both should be considered adults... but in high school, there is just no excuse. If you can't deal with that, then don't become a high school teacher. And the argument that we need more teachers is just going to be ridiculous. No one needs a teacher who is only there because they don't have to worry about going to jail because they can't control themselves.

I am sad for the 17 year old kid... but he should have known that he was playing with fire. If you know the girls parents don't like you... and you have sex with her anyway... what the hell do you think is going to happen? Are you saying that the boy was raped by the girl? Good luck convincing anyone of that one. Do I think he should be a registered sex offender... no. But I remember my father and one of my coaches warning me that "16 will get you 20". It was a very, very common quote back in the 80s. This boys parents failed him miserably, if they never warned him of the dangers of having sex with your girlfriend.

Also, i forgot to address your last line. No, for thousands of years, if a young girl was discovered to have had sex with a man before marriage... the girls family would either force the man to marry the girl, or they might murder him. In many cultures throughout history, the mans execution at the hands of the family would have been considered justified. Perhaps you have heard or read about duels in England or the family feuds in colonial America. Many times, there was just such a situation that had occurred which lead to either a feud or a duel.

So no, young kids having sex outside of marriage has never been acceptable in most societies & cultures.

---

Hard to parse on my phone:
1) I agree teachers having sex with students is not ok regardless of age. It's an abuse of power. I probably disagree on the collegiate level. It is still an abuse of power even though all parties are likely consenting adults.

2) There's no reason a 17 year old and a 16 year old can't have a consensual relationship. That happens all the time, probably well more than you're comfortable with. We could go to any HS in the country (even your fancy private Christian ones) and find multiple instances of that occurring. Do I think "don't do that!" Is good advice? Yes, for sure. Do I think you should be labeled a rapist for doing it? No, not unless you raped someone.

3) culture existed way before the West. It was very common in Rome, Greece and the entire Muslim world to have young male and female partners. Concubines were fairly common among the wealthy and it was a common practice in Asia until the 20th century. Most were 14-16, many were younger. Until the Han dynasty they were unlimited in quantity. For most of medieval times marriage was common at 12-16.

The west in the 1800s and on is probably the most puritanical version of modern history and certainly not representative of the vast majority of human time.

Just to clarify sex with children is not ok; it's gross, it's abhorrent and should land you in a pine box.

nein51 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

nein51 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

nein51 said:

---

historian said:

---

You forget one important point about people marrying early a few generations ago: life expectancy was significantly lower. Today the be average life expectancy for women is over 80 and for men almost as high. Also, the issue is not two teenagers about the same age getting married. That's legal now, although it might require parental permission.

The problem is an adult molesting a child several (or many) years younger in a casual encounter. A huge problem with modern culture is treating sex casually so that people seem to think they have a right to engage in sex with anyone they want under almost any circumstances. The moral & legal issue is when it involves underage children lacking the maturity to consent rationally when they hardly understand what they are doing. Added to this are the professional lapses such as teachers having sex with their students of people filming each other and posting the photos online.

---

See I told you there was an interesting discussion here.

Your teacher issue is multi faceted. A 22 year old teacher having sex with an 18 yr old senior isn't particularly disgusting from an age perspective (18 year olds date 22 year olds fairly frequently) but it's a massive abuse of power/position.

You mentioned age of consent so when a 14 year old robs and kills someone we often treat them as an adult. Are they an adult only for that specific situation?

FTR I agree my kid (16 now) was a moron at 14 and definitely not an adult and he incredibly mature.

The point about life expectancy is a good one. People live longer so the need for pairing and procreation is not as great.

So you said the problem is an adult molesting a child; for the sake of discussion what's an adult and what's a child? I mean I think we all agree a 30 year old having sex with a 12 year old is gross and immoral as well as illegal and did I mentioned disgusting. So where is that line for you?

---

rather than trying to find the fine line between barely acceptable and straight degeneracy... maybe focus on actual morality?

The current laws are just fine, for everyone who isn't obsessed with child sex. If you are actually asking these questions, you should probably talk with a therapist. Maybe the degenerates in our society should focus more time on encouraging kids to NOT have sex until marriage... rather than teaching them all the current forms of degenerate behavior? Let's focus less on if it's legal for a 14 year old to have sex with a 18 year old... and more on teaching teenagers to control their emotions, hormones and behavior.

---

In the history of the world your last sentence hasn't worked. I agree that is the correct expected outcome.

I don't need a therapist.

Let's just say your way doesn't work, people still have sex, there need to be defined rules for a functioning society. For thousands of years those rules allowed things we no longer allow for, that's progress.

---

OK... how about this...

It should always be illegal for a teacher of any age to have sex with a student in high school. Forget about age. If a teacher is found to have had sex with a student, that teacher should be facing jail time.

There is NO excuse for a teacher, who should be considered a full grown adult, to have sex with a student.

At the college level, it should not be a criminal case as both should be considered adults... but in high school, there is just no excuse. If you can't deal with that, then don't become a high school teacher. And the argument that we need more teachers is just going to be ridiculous. No one needs a teacher who is only there because they don't have to worry about going to jail because they can't control themselves.

I am sad for the 17 year old kid... but he should have known that he was playing with fire. If you know the girls parents don't like you... and you have sex with her anyway... what the hell do you think is going to happen? Are you saying that the boy was raped by the girl? Good luck convincing anyone of that one. Do I think he should be a registered sex offender... no. But I remember my father and one of my coaches warning me that "16 will get you 20". It was a very, very common quote back in the 80s. This boys parents failed him miserably, if they never warned him of the dangers of having sex with your girlfriend.

Also, i forgot to address your last line. No, for thousands of years, if a young girl was discovered to have had sex with a man before marriage... the girls family would either force the man to marry the girl, or they might murder him. In many cultures throughout history, the mans execution at the hands of the family would have been considered justified. Perhaps you have heard or read about duels in England or the family feuds in colonial America. Many times, there was just such a situation that had occurred which lead to either a feud or a duel.

So no, young kids having sex outside of marriage has never been acceptable in most societies & cultures.

---

Hard to parse on my phone:
1) I agree teachers having sex with students is not ok regardless of age. It's an abuse of power. I probably disagree on the collegiate level. It is still an abuse of power even though all parties are likely consenting adults.

2) There's no reason a 17 year old and a 16 year old can't have a consensual relationship. That happens all the time, probably well more than you're comfortable with. We could go to any HS in the country (even your fancy private Christian ones) and find multiple instances of that occurring. Do I think "don't do that!" Is good advice? Yes, for sure. Do I think you should be labeled a rapist for doing it? No, not unless you raped someone.

3) culture existed way before the West. It was very common in Rome, Greece and the entire Muslim world to have young male and female partners. Concubines were fairly common among the wealthy and it was a common practice in Asia until the 20th century. Most were 14-16, many were younger. Until the Han dynasty they were unlimited in quantity. For most of medieval times marriage was common at 12-16.

The west in the 1800s and on is probably the most puritanical version of modern history and certainly not representative of the vast majority of human time.

Just to clarify sex with children is not ok; it's gross, it's abhorrent and should land you in a pine box.

---

appreciate the feedback, and I understand your position a lot better based on this information.

1) yeah, we agree.
2) I don't agree with the label of "rapist"... but that is the current law for at least the past 50 years. Is it perfect, no... but I really don't see the need to change it. Honestly, we should do everything we can to encourage children to NOT engage in sexual behaviors at a young age.
3) There are a lot of activities that were common in those cultures & timeframes, which we would find abhorrent today. The most obvious one is slavery. Slavery was common in every culture around the globe for all of human history. That doesn't make it good. Likewise, concubines and sex outside of marriage is a major detriment to the progress of society. You must remember that only the very rich engaged in these activities that you listed, in most of these societies. Today, it is very common in the muslim world for men to engage in sexual relations with young children... but it is something that should be condemned, not encouraged or allowed.

"For most of medieval times marriage was common at 12-16." - You do know that it is still legal for teenagers to get married in America, right? It is not a great idea, and it requires the sign off of the parents.. but it is still a reality. But that really isn't the point of this conversation. We were talking about a boy being labeled a rapist because he had sex with his girlfriend... not his wife.

ShooterTX said:

---

nein51 said:

---

historian said:

---

You forget one important point about people marrying early a few generations ago: life expectancy was significantly lower. Today the be average life expectancy for women is over 80 and for men almost as high. Also, the issue is not two teenagers about the same age getting married. That's legal now, although it might require parental permission.

The problem is an adult molesting a child several (or many) years younger in a casual encounter. A huge problem with modern culture is treating sex casually so that people seem to think they have a right to engage in sex with anyone they want under almost any circumstances. The moral & legal issue is when it involves underage children lacking the maturity to consent rationally when they hardly understand what they are doing. Added to this are the professional lapses such as teachers having sex with their students of people filming each other and posting the photos online.

---

See I told you there was an interesting discussion here.

Your teacher issue is multi faceted. A 22 year old teacher having sex with an 18 yr old senior isn't particularly disgusting from an age perspective (18 year olds date 22 year olds fairly frequently) but it's a massive abuse of power/position.

You mentioned age of consent so when a 14 year old robs and kills someone we often treat them as an adult. Are they an adult only for that specific situation?

FTR I agree my kid (16 now) was a moron at 14 and definitely not an adult and he incredibly mature.

The point about life expectancy is a good one. People live longer so the need for pairing and procreation is not as great.

So you said the problem is an adult molesting a child; for the sake of discussion what's an adult and what's a child? I mean I think we all agree a 30 year old having sex with a 12 year old is gross and immoral as well as illegal and did I mentioned disgusting. So where is that line for you?

---

rather than trying to find the fine line between barely acceptable and straight degeneracy... maybe focus on actual morality?

The current laws are just fine, for everyone who isn't obsessed with child sex. If you are actually asking these questions, you should probably talk with a therapist. Maybe the degenerates in our society should focus more time on encouraging kids to NOT have sex until marriage... rather than teaching them all the current forms of degenerate behavior? Let's focus less on if it's legal for a 14 year old to have sex with a 18 year old... and more on teaching teenagers to control their emotions, hormones and behavior.

---

That's just plain common sense. So of course the fascists, perverts, & other whackos will hate the idea!

There is a difference between acknowledging that people will have sex and dealing with it and encouraging people to have sex and not expecting any consequences. Infanticide is a barbaric cop out (abortion is a sanitized term to hide that fact), homosexuality and other forms of perversion (polyamorism, beastiality, pedophilia, etc) are just plain disgusting and should never be given any credence or acceptance in normal society. But our culture has degenerated into all kinds of perversion being acceptable & even legal, especially infanticide & homosexuality (although congress never passed a law legalizing either). The other, perhaps more disgusting examples, have been the subject of much discussion snd some advocacy, as shocking & disgusting as that seems. Don't forget the law recently passed in Germany.

nein51 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

nein51 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

nein51 said:

---

historian said:

---

You forget one important point about people marrying early a few generations ago: life expectancy was significantly lower. Today the be average life expectancy for women is over 80 and for men almost as high. Also, the issue is not two teenagers about the same age getting married. That's legal now, although it might require parental permission.

The problem is an adult molesting a child several (or many) years younger in a casual encounter. A huge problem with modern culture is treating sex casually so that people seem to think they have a right to engage in sex with anyone they want under almost any circumstances. The moral & legal issue is when it involves underage children lacking the maturity to consent rationally when they hardly understand what they are doing. Added to this are the professional lapses such as teachers having sex with their students of people filming each other and posting the photos online.

---

See I told you there was an interesting discussion here.

Your teacher issue is multi faceted. A 22 year old teacher having sex with an 18 yr old senior isn't particularly disgusting from an age perspective (18 year olds date 22 year olds fairly frequently) but it's a massive abuse of power/position.

You mentioned age of consent so when a 14 year old robs and kills someone we often treat them as an adult. Are they an adult only for that specific situation?

FTR I agree my kid (16 now) was a moron at 14 and definitely not an adult and he incredibly mature.

The point about life expectancy is a good one. People live longer so the need for pairing and procreation is not as great.

So you said the problem is an adult molesting a child; for the sake of discussion what's an adult and what's a child? I mean I think we all agree a 30 year old having sex with a 12 year old is gross and immoral as well as illegal and did I mentioned disgusting. So where is that line for you?

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rather than trying to find the fine line between barely acceptable and straight degeneracy... maybe focus on actual morality?

The current laws are just fine, for everyone who isn't obsessed with child sex. If you are actually asking these questions, you should probably talk with a therapist. Maybe the degenerates in our society should focus more time on encouraging kids to NOT have sex until marriage... rather than teaching them all the current forms of degenerate behavior? Let's focus less on if it's legal for a 14 year old to have sex with a 18 year old... and more on teaching teenagers to control their emotions, hormones and behavior.

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In the history of the world your last sentence hasn't worked. I agree that is the correct expected outcome.

I don't need a therapist.

Let's just say your way doesn't work, people still have sex, there need to be defined rules for a functioning society. For thousands of years those rules allowed things we no longer allow for, that's progress.

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OK... how about this...

It should always be illegal for a teacher of any age to have sex with a student in high school. Forget about age. If a teacher is found to have had sex with a student, that teacher should be facing jail time.

There is NO excuse for a teacher, who should be considered a full grown adult, to have sex with a student.

At the college level, it should not be a criminal case as both should be considered adults... but in high school, there is just no excuse. If you can't deal with that, then don't become a high school teacher. And the argument that we need more teachers is just going to be ridiculous. No one needs a teacher who is only there because they don't have to worry about going to jail because they can't control themselves.

I am sad for the 17 year old kid... but he should have known that he was playing with fire. If you know the girls parents don't like you... and you have sex with her anyway... what the hell do you think is going to happen? Are you saying that the boy was raped by the girl? Good luck convincing anyone of that one. Do I think he should be a registered sex offender... no. But I remember my father and one of my coaches warning me that "16 will get you 20". It was a very, very common quote back in the 80s. This boys parents failed him miserably, if they never warned him of the dangers of having sex with your girlfriend.

Also, i forgot to address your last line. No, for thousands of years, if a young girl was discovered to have had sex with a man before marriage... the girls family would either force the man to marry the girl, or they might murder him. In many cultures throughout history, the mans execution at the hands of the family would have been considered justified. Perhaps you have heard or read about duels in England or the family feuds in colonial America. Many times, there was just such a situation that had occurred which lead to either a feud or a duel.

So no, young kids having sex outside of marriage has never been acceptable in most societies & cultures.

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Hard to parse on my phone:
1) I agree teachers having sex with students is not ok regardless of age. It's an abuse of power. I probably disagree on the collegiate level. It is still an abuse of power even though all parties are likely consenting adults.

2) There's no reason a 17 year old and a 16 year old can't have a consensual relationship. That happens all the time, probably well more than you're comfortable with. We could go to any HS in the country (even your fancy private Christian ones) and find multiple instances of that occurring. Do I think "don't do that!" Is good advice? Yes, for sure. Do I think you should be labeled a rapist for doing it? No, not unless you raped someone.

3) culture existed way before the West. It was very common in Rome, Greece and the entire Muslim world to have young male and female partners. Concubines were fairly common among the wealthy and it was a common practice in Asia until the 20th century. Most were 14-16, many were younger. Until the Han dynasty they were unlimited in quantity. For most of medieval times marriage was common at 12-16.

The west in the 1800s and on is probably the most puritanical version of modern history and certainly not representative of the vast majority of human time.

Just to clarify sex with children is not ok; it's gross, it's abhorrent and should land you in a pine box.

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Those ancient cultures do not make a good argument: they also tolerated infanticide, adultery, homosexuality, and many other barbaric or degenerate practices that ard totally unacceptable. Also, we must acknowledge that a lot of things have changed over the past three millennia. But God's morality is not one of them.

Otherwise I agree with you & Shooter.

Hey remember that thing that was never going to happen

It’s already happening and will eventually be common practice https://t.co/jPeCTe67Ml

— Auron MacIntyre (@AuronMacintyre) May 24, 2024

nein51 said:

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There's probably an interesting discussion there somewhere. It wasn't all that long ago that people were married at 12-15. That may include some poster's grandparents and certainly some poster's great grandparents. My wife's grandparents were married at 15, for example and we are not that old. The concept of age of consent is pretty new, all things considered. History is littered with societies that found no particular issue with what we now call pedophilia or pederasty, it was common all across Ancient Greece and Rome, as well as the entire Islamic world for example.

FTR I'm not arguing for that position (that sex with children is ok, it's obviously not) but I think positions that leave 17 year boys with lifelong labels as a rapist for sleeping with their 16 year old GFs are somewhat problematic.

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My grandma married at the of age 16 to a 32 year old, it was back in 1918 however.

My mother in law married at age 16, to a 20 year old. That was around 1965. They had been dating for at least a couple of years.

Today these relationships would be considered problematic.

A four or five year age difference is not really an issue unless one is a preteen or barely a teenager (13 or 14). It's when an adult has sex with a prepubescent child that it becomes problematic. Also, marriage is very different from a fling or one night stand. But in our culture could brides are definitely an issue.

Most of this can be dealt with based upon reasonable common sense. These are issues that most people should be able to agree about. It's when the crazy stuff starts to be seen as "normal" that we have serious problems, such as what SCOTUS has done with homosexuality and fake marriage. A quick look at the dictionary makes it clear that such practices are not normal.

historian said:

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A four or five year age difference is not really an issue unless one is a preteen or barely a teenager (13 or 14). It's when an adult has sex with a prepubescent child that it becomes problematic. Also, marriage is very different from a fling or one night stand. But in our culture could brides are definitely an issue.

Most of this can be dealt with based upon reasonable common sense. These are issues that most people should be able to agree about. It's when the crazy stuff starts to be seen as "normal" that we have serious problems, such as what SCOTUS has done with homosexuality and fake marriage. A quick look at the dictionary makes it clear that such practices are not normal.

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Men with men is not a marriage. I understand the law acknowleges it as such, but it is an impossibilty.

To call men with men and women with women a marriage is simply to come in direct opposition of God, and not something I'm going to lie about. It isn't marriage.

Quote:

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Marriage like Christ and the Church

22 Wives, subject yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church [a]in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. 28 So husbands also ought to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30 because we are parts of His body. 31 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. 32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.

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How did I grow up playing video games without Mario telling me his $exual preference and identity???

NEW: Nintendo @NintendoAmerica has gone woke. They just introduced a transgender character in a kid’s game. Vivian discusses her gender identity and her sisters’ transphobia with Mario. She says she realized she “was their sister...not their brother.” pic.twitter.com/DZMSwGEr7u

— Libs of TikTok (@libsoftiktok) May 23, 2024

Perversion is impacting Kurd aspects of our society. It's crazy & very disturbing.

SIC EM 94 said:

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What a shock that a disgusting heretic such as yourself thinks that Focus on the Family is wrong in their position on the word of God.

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No such thing as the word of God! All kinds of different cultures claim to be right and have the word of God and zero of them do. Why does anyone care about who has sex with who etc...it's insane. Your a mammal with an ancient ape anscestor, this is a fact not a belief. Never in human history or genealogy has there been a perfect human.that is an belief born from ignorance from uneducated people thousnads of years ago. It is amazing that mind conditioning works so well in young children that makes them belive such utter bull*****

Happy Pansexual & Panromantic Awareness & Visibility Day! Today, we celebrate the beautiful spectrum of love and attraction. Love transcends gender and societal norms—it's simply pure. Let's embrace our authentic selves and spread love without boundaries! 💖 #PanVisibilityDay pic.twitter.com/ya4Mp64kT2

— Trans Lifeline (@TransLifeline) May 24, 2024

Sometimes you have to wonder when posters wrap themselves up in their interpretation of the Bible and the sins thereof concerning sex. I'm reminded of Donald Trump the look alikes on these boards. Being a closeted gay person must be difficult to say the least.

Interesting feature in today's NYT's regarding Tump and his persona in 1980's.

NYT

Quote:

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Some days, Mr. Trump has eviscerated his lawyers and complained privately that he has no Roy M. Cohn, his original fixer and mentor and lawyer. Like Mr. Trump, Mr. Cohn was born into outer-borough privilege and then alternately reviled and accepted by powerful people. Mr. Cohn, a closeted gay man who tried to purge the federal government of gay people, died in 1986; he had AIDS but told people it was liver cancer.

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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Sometimes you have to wonder when posters wrap themselves up in their interpretation of the Bible and the sins thereof concerning sex. I'm reminded of Donald Trump the look alikes on these boards. Being a closeted gay person must be difficult to say the least.

Interesting feature in today's NYT's regarding Tump and his persona in 1980's.

NYT

Quote:

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Some days, Mr. Trump has eviscerated his lawyers and complained privately that he has no Roy M. Cohn, his original fixer and mentor and lawyer. Like Mr. Trump, Mr. Cohn was born into outer-borough privilege and then alternately reviled and accepted by powerful people. Mr. Cohn, a closeted gay man who tried to purge the federal government of gay people, died in 1986; he had AIDS but told people it was liver cancer.

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Sometimes you have to wonder when posters wrap themselves up in the idea that morality doesn't exist when it comes to sex. Being a closeted pedophile must be difficult to say the least.

None of us has an ancient ape ancestor! That most definitely is NOT fact, instead it is a belief in a scientific theory without any proof. Actually, we are created in the image of God. All of us.

God's word is far more reliable than the collected works of Darwin, Marx, Nietzsche, and all other philosophers and scientists one wants to rely upon. They made mistakes. Lots of them. Sometimes glaring ones. God never made a mistake.

oh would you look at this?

Jared Ravizza, a former professional skier who is a man that pretends to be a woman, randomly stabbed 4 young girls in a movie theater in a Boston suburb.

All the "news" stories I've seen on this have said "a man" was the suspect and not a transgender man. It's almost like… pic.twitter.com/XXmUst47bo

— 🟢BandOfBrothersQ🟢 (@BandOfBrothersQ) May 27, 2024

Immorality does exist when it comes to sexual behavior

Jack Bauer said:

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oh would you look at this?

Jared Ravizza, a former professional skier who is a man that pretends to be a woman, randomly stabbed 4 young girls in a movie theater in a Boston suburb.

All the "news" stories I've seen on this have said "a man" was the suspect and not a transgender man. It's almost like… pic.twitter.com/XXmUst47bo

— 🟢BandOfBrothersQ🟢 (@BandOfBrothersQ) May 27, 2024

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What should we expect from the mentally insane?

Trans is 100% a mental illness. These people should be locked-up and treated.

Bring back asylums!

Jack Bauer said:

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oh would you look at this?

Jared Ravizza, a former professional skier who is a man that pretends to be a woman, randomly stabbed 4 young girls in a movie theater in a Boston suburb.

All the "news" stories I've seen on this have said "a man" was the suspect and not a transgender man. It's almost like… pic.twitter.com/XXmUst47bo

— 🟢BandOfBrothersQ🟢 (@BandOfBrothersQ) May 27, 2024

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Definitely not an agenda ...

It's the new version of the race of the shooter - one always knows it is a black killer if no race is mentioned.

I do believe what ... five of the last six mass attacks have been committed by trainies.