Osodecentx said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Let’s be honest here, is anyone even a little bit surprised our government lied to us? https://t.co/LtmrwRWW5W

— Lou Dobbs (@LouDobbs) March 7, 2024

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So, she left. She's
VP and her life was threatened

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Not on J6

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Sorry she was a Senator on j6 not vp

Realitybites said:

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The reality of what happened on J6 cannot be separated from what happened in the election of 2020.

If the election was indeed stolen, then the police officers who were injured were the enforcers of an illegitimate junta currently ruling the country.

If the election was a free and fair election, then the best of the J6ers were misguided protestors, and the worst of them were violent insurrections.

Regardless, the events of that day cannot be judged in isolation apart from the election that sparked them.

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So, your saying that violence is fine if you really believe in it? Using that logic, ANTIFA is well within their rights to riot against an oppressive regime (using their talk)? What level of violence is ok if you don't agree with the results? Attacking the Candidate? Their family?

There still hasn't been any evidence that has stood up in Court to show the election was stolen. The AG at the time said they didn't find evidence of fraud. AG a RINO and Courts part of the deep state? Slippery slope.

Violence is never an acceptable response. What they did was wrong period. When you start believing conspiracy theories over Court cases and the AG, you have crossed the line.

Not to mention the Civil War when a whole lot more violence was used to defend freedom from those who wanted to maintain and extend slavery. That war was started by the slavers but it took huge amounts of violence to stop them.

Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Violence is never an acceptable response.

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What are your thoughts on what George Washington and the Continental Army did? You live in a country founded on the use of violence to secure freedom. So let's set aside the flawed concept of "violence never being an acceptable response."

Right or wrong, the J6ers were motivated by a love of country. Those who are currently persecuting them are motivated by a love of government Nonsense

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Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Violence is never an acceptable response.

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What are your thoughts on what George Washington and the Continental Army did? You live in a country founded on the use of violence to secure freedom. So let's set aside the flawed concept of "violence never being an acceptable response."

As far as ANTIFA is concerned, you cannot really draw any moral equivalence between communist revolutionaries and patriots. Right or wrong, the J6ers were motivated by a love of country. Those who are currently persecuting them are motivated by a love of government.

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Now Jan 6th and Trump are George Washington??

FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Violence is never an acceptable response.

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What are your thoughts on what George Washington and the Continental Army did? You live in a country founded on the use of violence to secure freedom. So let's set aside the flawed concept of "violence never being an acceptable response."

As far as ANTIFA is concerned, you cannot really draw any moral equivalence between communist revolutionaries and patriots. Right or wrong, the J6ers were motivated by a love of country. Those who are currently persecuting them are motivated by a love of government.

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Now Jan 6th and Trump are George Washington??

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Of the many "stoopid" arguments put forward, Reality has really exceeded all laws

There are limits to genius, none on stupidity

FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Violence is never an acceptable response.

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What are your thoughts on what George Washington and the Continental Army did? You live in a country founded on the use of violence to secure freedom. So let's set aside the flawed concept of "violence never being an acceptable response."

As far as ANTIFA is concerned, you cannot really draw any moral equivalence between communist revolutionaries and patriots. Right or wrong, the J6ers were motivated by a love of country. Those who are currently persecuting them are motivated by a love of government.

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Now Jan 6th and Trump are George Washington??

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Is that what I said?

No.

That was a question asked with regards to your assertion that violence is never an acceptable response.

So what are your thoughts on George Washington, the Continental Army, and the American Revolution? Are you a monarchist who believes that we should have continued to live under King George's rule because of a misapplication of Romans 13? There are such people out there.

I made no comparison at all.

You made a blanket statement about the acceptability of violence. It was necessary to introduce matters aside from J6 to discuss the validity of that statement.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Incidentally, there's this...

"Since when have we Americans been expected to bow submissively to authority and speak with awe and reverence to those who represent us? The constitutional theory is that we the people are the sovereigns, the state and federal officials only our agents. We who have the final word can speak softly or angrily. We can seek to challenge and annoy, as we need not stay docile and quiet."

From no less than Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas.

Realitybites said:

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I made no comparison at all.

You made a blanket statement about the acceptability of violence. It was necessary to introduce matters aside from J6 to discuss the validity of that statement.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Incidentally, there's this...

"Since when have we Americans been expected to bow submissively to authority and speak with awe and reverence to those who represent us? The constitutional theory is that we the people are the sovereigns, the state and federal officials only our agents. We who have the final word can speak softly or angrily. We can seek to challenge and annoy, as we need not stay docile and quiet."

From no less than Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas.

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On to your question.

I have one for you. Does Rebellion have to be based on facts or just the believe in something?

American Revolution - Stamp Tax, Tea Tax, Servitude on British Ships, Quartering Act all these things happened over a period of time. They are facts.

Civil War - Slavery existed, States rights was a real argument. Facts

Civil Rights - Really happened, Eisenhower had to send the 82nd to Arkansas to ensure the law was followed.

To equate Jan 6th and a speculation that that Trump really won with no facts or any supporting information (the Courts did not find in his favor, DOJ found nothing, forensic accountings have not overturned one district, we still have only speculation) justified the resulting speech and violence? Apply the same to 2020 riots.

So, the use of the media and a charismatic speaker is enough to warrant "rebellion" and you are good with that? That is what the Founding Fathers meant by Tyranny?

FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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I made no comparison at all.

You made a blanket statement about the acceptability of violence. It was necessary to introduce matters aside from J6 to discuss the validity of that statement.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Incidentally, there's this...

"Since when have we Americans been expected to bow submissively to authority and speak with awe and reverence to those who represent us? The constitutional theory is that we the people are the sovereigns, the state and federal officials only our agents. We who have the final word can speak softly or angrily. We can seek to challenge and annoy, as we need not stay docile and quiet."

From no less than Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas.

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On to your question.

I have one for you. Does Rebellion have to be based on facts or just the believe in something?

American Revolution - Stamp Tax, Tea Tax, Servitude on British Ships, Quartering Act all these things happened over a period of time. They are facts.

Civil War - Slavery existed, States rights was a real argument. Facts

Civil Rights - Really happened, Eisenhower had to send the 82nd to Arkansas to ensure the law was followed.

To equate Jan 6th and a speculation that that Trump really won with no facts or any supporting information (the Courts did not find in his favor, DOJ found nothing, forensic accountings have not overturned one district, we still have only speculation) justified the resulting speech and violence? Apply the same to 2020 riots.

So, the use of the media and a charismatic speaker is enough to warrant "rebellion" and you are good with that? That is what the Founding Fathers meant by Tyranny?

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Excellent

Graves is delusional.
But he is also admitting that the January 6 prosecutions are an entirely "political maelstrom." https://t.co/EsX0jgl9pQ

— 🇺🇸 (@FreeStateWill) March 26, 2024

He ain't a hostage. See Hamas for real hostages. I know what my eyes - the Capitol was stormed at the invitation of Trump himself. Their intent was to overthrow a Constitutionally election.

Waco1947 said:

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He ain't a hostage. See Hamas for real hostages. I know what my eyes - the Capitol was stormed at the invitation of Trump himself. Their intent was to overthrow a Constitutionally election.

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When did Trump call for the Capitol building to be "stormed"

Surely you can provide us video evidence of this event?

"These are the mistakes, intentional or otherwise, that led to Jan 6. We had offered the Capitol Police and Mayor Bowser of Washington DC, thousands of National Guard's men and women - two days before Jan 6 - AND THEY TURNED US DOWN." -Kash Patelpic.twitter.com/fK6VuccIaa

— E 🇺🇸 (@Simply4Truth_) January 6, 2024

Redbrickbear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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He ain't a hostage. See Hamas for real hostages. I know what my eyes - the Capitol was stormed at the invitation of Trump himself. Their intent was to overthrow a Constitutionally election.

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When did Trump call for the Capitol building to be "stormed"

Surely you can provide us video evidence of this event?

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Let's go the Capitol and I'll go with you and we will raise

Redbrickbear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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He ain't a hostage. See Hamas for real hostages. I know what my eyes - the Capitol was stormed at the invitation of Trump himself. Their intent was to overthrow a Constitutionally election.

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When did Trump call for the Capitol building to be "stormed"

Surely you can provide us video evidence of this event?

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Here is the video. Of course Trump mentioned protesting peacefully, but the protesters did storm the building and there was some non peaceful behavior.

Guy Noir said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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He ain't a hostage. See Hamas for real hostages. I know what my eyes - the Capitol was stormed at the invitation of Trump himself. Their intent was to overthrow a Constitutionally election.

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When did Trump call for the Capitol building to be "stormed"

Surely you can provide us video evidence of this event?

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So march over to the Capitol is now the same as "storm" the building?

Is approaching our Capitol building (a public and tax payer owned facility) now a crime?

In the video you just posted:

Trump said, "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

People have become so addicted to disinformation narratives that they can never be convinced no matter how much truth they are presented with. Remember, there are folks that actually believe:
- Trump banned Muslims
- Trump put kids in cages
- Kyle Rittenhouse killed three black people
- Michael Brown said "hands up don't shoot"
- Cops disproportionately killed unarmed black people
- White people commit a rash of anti-Asian hate crimes
- Trump praised KKK members
- Juicy Smollett was attacked by Trump voters
- It is illegal to say "gay" in Florida
- Burn Loot Murder was "mostly peaceful" protests
- Multiple cops were killed on January 6
etc.

They're never going to give up the narrative.

Every single one of those is a proven lie. But the fascists treat each one like it was gospel.

D.C. Jury Convicts Great-Grandma For Walking Around The Capitol For 10 Minutes On Jan. 6https://t.co/XpRm0vMDjC

— The Federalist (@FDRLST) April 5, 2024

We have basically transitioned to a full scale banana republic. We have fully weaponized the government to selectively enforce different laws. Between the January 6 hysterics to the lawfare launched against Donald Trump.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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We have basically transitioned to a full scale banana republic. We have fully weaponized the government to selectively enforce different laws. Between the January 6 hysterics to the lawfare launched against Donald Trump.

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Let's cut out melodramatics, her kid had a kid. That doesn't give her the right to break law. What did she actually do in those 10 minutes and where was she. . Sick of the drama. We are not almost at nuclear war. The border is not the end of the US. Peoples whose kids have kids don't get free passes.

What in the hell happened to going by Facts. You guys are all emotion.

FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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We have basically transitioned to a full scale banana republic. We have fully weaponized the government to selectively enforce different laws. Between the January 6 hysterics to the lawfare launched against Donald Trump.

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Let's cut out melodramatics, her kid had a kid. That doesn't give her the right to break law. What did she actually do in those 10 minutes and where was she. . Sick of the drama. We are not almost at nuclear war. The border is not the end of the US. Peoples whose kids have kids don't get free passes.

What in the hell happened to going by Facts. You guys are all emotion.

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Your projection while mildly amusing is also concerning. Maybe you support "justice" based on political party and using lawfare to undermine democracy, but I do not.

Speaking of Facts, maybe you can tell us more how the Russia Hoax was real and Hunter's laptop was false.

FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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We have basically transitioned to a full scale banana republic. We have fully weaponized the government to selectively enforce different laws. Between the January 6 hysterics to the lawfare launched against Donald Trump.

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Let's cut out melodramatics, her kid had a kid. That doesn't give her the right to break law. What did she actually do in those 10 minutes and where was she. . Sick of the drama. .

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She walked around the Capitol building…a public taxpayer owned building.

That's it

It's a building owned by the American people…not an imperial palace or some Chinese forbidden city.

Its Senate and Representative chambers are literally built with public balconies so that the public citizens can watch their servants carry out public business

Osodecentx said:

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Can't find the "rowdy tourists guilty" thread. Here's a new one

Man sentenced to 7 years in Jan. 6 assaults that forced an officer to retire
Prosecutors sought a 15-year term for Kyle Fitzsimons, whose attack on one officer forced him into medical retirement
The bloodied face of Kyle Fitzsimons, a butcher from Maine who repeatedly attacked police officers at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, became one of the more memorable images of the insurrection. A federal judge supplied the last line of the caption for that image Thursday, ordering Fitzsimons to spend more than seven years in prison.
Fitzsimons, 39, wearing a butcher's coat with "Kyle" embroidered on the chest and wielding an unstrung archery bow, twice charged into the phalanx of officers protecting the upper West Terrace tunnel on the afternoon of Jan. 6, at one point grabbing the shield strap and wrenching the shoulder of Capitol Police Sgt. Aquilino Gonell. The officer testified that the pain was so bad he considered using his gun to shoot Fitzsimons before he was freed. He suffered a partially torn rotator cuff and labrum, and was forced to take a medical retirement.
Video also captured Fitzsimons hurling his bow like a spear into the crowd of officers, striking one in the head, and also being involved in a tussle with D.C. Police Sgt. Phuson Nguyen, during which the officer's gas mask was dislodged and another rioter then poured chemical spray into Nguyen's face before the mask snapped shut. Nguyen testified that he got knocked down at the same time, and "I thought that was it for me. I thought that's where I'm going to die."

Pushed back from the tunnel, Fitzsimons can be seen on video gathering himself, and then simply running back into the police lines again, fists flailing. During these attacks, Fitzsimons was hit from behind by a crutch being swung by another rioter, surveillance video showed, opening up the bloody head wound which later required staples to close. Fitzsimons's trial attorney, Natasha Taylor-Smith, said the gory photo made Fitzsimons "the poster boy for Jan. 6."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/07/13/kyle-fitzsimons-sentenced-jan6/

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And DJT calls these criminal insurrectionists "hostages."

Sickening.

C. Jordan said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Can't find the "rowdy tourists guilty" thread. Here's a new one

Man sentenced to 7 years in Jan. 6 assaults that forced an officer to retire
Prosecutors sought a 15-year term for Kyle Fitzsimons, whose attack on one officer forced him into medical retirement
The bloodied face of Kyle Fitzsimons, a butcher from Maine who repeatedly attacked police officers at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, became one of the more memorable images of the insurrection. A federal judge supplied the last line of the caption for that image Thursday, ordering Fitzsimons to spend more than seven years in prison.
Fitzsimons, 39, wearing a butcher's coat with "Kyle" embroidered on the chest and wielding an unstrung archery bow, twice charged into the phalanx of officers protecting the upper West Terrace tunnel on the afternoon of Jan. 6, at one point grabbing the shield strap and wrenching the shoulder of Capitol Police Sgt. Aquilino Gonell. The officer testified that the pain was so bad he considered using his gun to shoot Fitzsimons before he was freed. He suffered a partially torn rotator cuff and labrum, and was forced to take a medical retirement.
Video also captured Fitzsimons hurling his bow like a spear into the crowd of officers, striking one in the head, and also being involved in a tussle with D.C. Police Sgt. Phuson Nguyen, during which the officer's gas mask was dislodged and another rioter then poured chemical spray into Nguyen's face before the mask snapped shut. Nguyen testified that he got knocked down at the same time, and "I thought that was it for me. I thought that's where I'm going to die."

Pushed back from the tunnel, Fitzsimons can be seen on video gathering himself, and then simply running back into the police lines again, fists flailing. During these attacks, Fitzsimons was hit from behind by a crutch being swung by another rioter, surveillance video showed, opening up the bloody head wound which later required staples to close. Fitzsimons's trial attorney, Natasha Taylor-Smith, said the gory photo made Fitzsimons "the poster boy for Jan. 6."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/07/13/kyle-fitzsimons-sentenced-jan6/

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And DJT calls these criminal insurrectionists "hostages."

Sickening.

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1300 American citizens have been arrested and charged by the jackboots in DC.

How many of those fellow Americans do you think are guilty of violence there comrade? Off to the gulag with all of them?

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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We have basically transitioned to a full scale banana republic. We have fully weaponized the government to selectively enforce different laws. Between the January 6 hysterics to the lawfare launched against Donald Trump.

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Let's cut out melodramatics, her kid had a kid. That doesn't give her the right to break law. What did she actually do in those 10 minutes and where was she. . Sick of the drama. .

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She walked around the Capitol building…a public taxpayer owned building.

That's it

It's a building owned by the American people…not an imperial palace or some Chinese forbidden city.

Its Senate and Representative chambers are literally built with public balconies so that the public citizens can watch their servants carry out public business

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.

She was told not to be there. You guys keep making excuses. Riot, breaking into the Capitol while Congress had to stop session. You are going to jail, rightly so. Who in their right mind thinks it is ok??? You want to play games like it is a public building, Capitol Police said not to go in. Normal, right thinking people get the hell out of there when it turns into a riot. What the F is wrong with you? This isn't a Trump or Dem thing, they broke into Congress and overran the CC capitol. That is not ok.

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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We have basically transitioned to a full scale banana republic. We have fully weaponized the government to selectively enforce different laws. Between the January 6 hysterics to the lawfare launched against Donald Trump.

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Let's cut out melodramatics, her kid had a kid. That doesn't give her the right to break law. What did she actually do in those 10 minutes and where was she. . Sick of the drama. .

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She walked around the Capitol building…a public taxpayer owned building.

That's it

It's a building owned by the American people…not an imperial palace or some Chinese forbidden city.

Its Senate and Representative chambers are literally built with public balconies so that the public citizens can watch their servants carry out public business

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You want to play games like it is a public building, Capitol Police said not to go in

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No games…it's a serious question with constitutional implications.

When did we decided as a Nation that the people's house was off limits to the people?

Now maybe the Senate & House chambers specifically can maybe-perhaps be closed on certain (very limited) time frames for Senate and House business.

(Even then we have deal with the fact that the chambers themselves are built with public galleys/balconies so that the general public can come in off the street and watch public business taking place)

But the idea that the entire Capitol complex is closed to the people of the United States is suspect to say the least….certainly far outside the expectations of the Founding Fathers.

I don't know about this woman specifically, but some of the so-called "insurrectionists" were invited into the building by capitol police, even holding the doors open for them. Some were escorted through the building by the police. I've seen photos & film clips. This was not a breaking & entering situation.

I agree in the main, but there are times when all public buildings are closed to everyone. Off hours situations, for example (late night, holidays, weekends, etc). I'm not saying J6 is one of those situations, however.

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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We have basically transitioned to a full scale banana republic. We have fully weaponized the government to selectively enforce different laws. Between the January 6 hysterics to the lawfare launched against Donald Trump.

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Let's cut out melodramatics, her kid had a kid. That doesn't give her the right to break law. What did she actually do in those 10 minutes and where was she. . Sick of the drama. .

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She walked around the Capitol building…a public taxpayer owned building.

That's it

It's a building owned by the American people…not an imperial palace or some Chinese forbidden city.

Its Senate and Representative chambers are literally built with public balconies so that the public citizens can watch their servants carry out public business

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.

You want to play games like it is a public building, Capitol Police said not to go in

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No games…it's a serious question with constitutional implications.

When did we decided as a Nation that the people's house was off limits to the people?

Now maybe the Senate and House chambers specifically can maybe-perhaps be closed on certain (very limited) time frames for Senate and House business.

(Even then we have deal with the fact that the chambers themselves are built with public galleys/balconies so that the general public can come in off the street and watch public business talking place)

But the idea that the entire Capitol complex is closed to the people of the United States is suspect to say the least….certainly far outside the expectations of the Founding Fathers.

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Serious response. You guys rail on personal responsibility, usually about finances because most on here are well off, how is this different?

You see the situation going south. There are Police barricades. People are breaking windows. People are scaling the walls, wearing military gear, waving Confederate flags. People popped smoke....

What do you do? Join the mob and go in? Or get out of there? Come on. It does not take military training to know to get away from that site! Go to any basic Krav Maga class, rule #1 get away from danger. Not tough stuff.

You join the mob, go inside take selfies while people are overrunning the Capital. You think this is the peoples house, they can't do anything? Or, no one will care that Congress had to be evacuated. Really, who f-ing thinks that way?

No, what this is about is these poor schmucks thought Donald was going to Pardon them all. They trusted Donald. He hung them out to dry. They now have criminal records while he walked away, covered himself with a BS "go peacefully", and turned it into a rally cry for 2024. These people believed in him, and he used them. You wonder why I hate Trump, look at Jan 6th and the aftermath for those people who believed in him. Most lives are at best set back and at worst ruined. He turned his back in a second, smirking...


You guys are villanizing law enforcement and the courts, they are doing their jobs. You CAN'T have Jan 6th and not come down hard. CIA guy knows that, but he likes Donald more than the poor schmucks Donald used.

Disagree, many do. Bannon has crafted a story these poor people want to believe.