Lincoln - the North's Farce That Keeps on Giving Even Today

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Redbrickbear
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Thee University said:



I was raised rural Texan and grew quickly to understand why there is still a large percentage of those living below the Mason-Dixon who have very, very little respect for the North and their attitudes toward the South.



Man, you almost sound like you want some of them thar slave owner reparations!!!
The North made a lot of money off the slave trade....when are they going to pay reparations for that?


[The great flaw of American abolitionism as it evolved toward demands of immediate and uncompensated emancipation was the fantasy that, if achieved, the goal would have no significant adverse consequences. Yet, there would obviously be at least two. First, abrupt emancipation would bankrupt the slaveholders who were often ultimately in debt to Northern bankers. Second, it would throw millions of ex-slaves out of work suddenly requiring them to care for themselves in a broken economy caused by plantation bankruptcies. That was, in fact, almost precisely what happened after the Civil War. Emancipation impoverished the entire region, black and white. Such results make a mockery of the pious initiatives by antebellum abolitionists demanding abrupt and uncompensated emancipation.]
-Philip Leigh


[The slave trade in particular was dominated by the northern maritime industry. Rhode Island alone was responsible for half of all U.S. slave voyages. James DeWolf and his family may have been the biggest slave traders in U.S. history, but there were many others involved. For example, members of the Brown family of Providence, some of whom were prominent in the slave trade, gave substantial gifts to Rhode Island College, which was later renamed Brown University.

While local townspeople thought of the DeWolfs and other prominent families primarily as general merchants, distillers and traders who supported ship-building, warehousing, insurance and other trades and businesses, it was common knowledge that one source of this business was the cheap labor and huge profits reaped from trafficking in human beings.

The North also imported slaves, as well as transporting and selling them in the south and abroad. While the majority of enslaved Africans arrived in southern ports Charleston, South Carolina was the largest market for slave traders, including the DeWolfs most large colonial ports served as points of entry, and Africans were sold in northern ports including Philadelphia, New York, Boston, and Newport, Rhode Island.
The southern coastal states...were therefore home to the vast majority of enslaved persons. But there were slaves in each of the thirteen original colonies, and slavery was legal in the North for over two hundred years. While the northern states gradually began abolishing slavery by law starting in the 1780s, many northern states did not act against slavery until well into the 19th century, and their laws generally provided only for gradual abolition, allowing slave owners to keep their existing slaves and often their children. As a result, New Jersey, for instance, still had thousands of persons legally enslaved in the 1830s, and did not finally abolish slavery by law until 1846. As late as the outbreak of the Civil War, in fact, there were northern slaves listed on the federal census.]
-Sources: "Africans in America Part Two: Revolution." WGBH Interactive. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2narr1.html; David Eltis, Stephen D. Behrendt, David Richardson, and Herbert S. Klein, eds.
Redbrickbear
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Mitch Blood Green said:

My man from Illinois

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2024/02/19/biden-14th-in-scholars--presidential-rankings--trump-last
Any list that does not have Polk in the top 10 is a joke.

Redbrickbear
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TenBears said:

So now JFK, Lincoln and Grant were all losers.
Who said they were losers?

1. JFK seemed like he had a good vision for the country....but he did get us sucked into Vietnam. Would have been nice if that had not happened.

2. Grant was a good general...poor politician. His administration was eaten up with corruption.

https://www.presidentprofiles.com/Grant-Eisenhower/Ulysses-S-Grant-The-scandals.html

But he was a fundamentally decent enough guy. He and Gen. Longstreet got a long well...he even made him an ambassador.

[one reason the friendship between Gen. James Longstreet and Gen. Ulysses S. Grant is so remarkable. Neither man was known for being an extrovert; one of their few commonalities was a love for horses over people. Even more stunning was the fact that they fought on opposite sides Longstreet for the Confederacy and Grant for the Union. Their backgrounds could not be more different: Grant grew up in small-town Ohio; Longstreet was born in South Carolina and was raised a Southern gentleman in Georgia. By the time he entered West Point, "Pete" Longstreet was over six feet tall, well built and handsome. "Sam" Grant, when he arrived a year later, stood just an inch over five feet, and was slight, scrappy and silent "A plodding enigma," as one of his biographers described him. And yet, somehow, Sam and Pete became good friends.

After graduation both were posted to Jefferson Barracks, Mo. Longstreet's West Point roommate and cousin, Fred Dent, was from nearby, and a visit to the Dent house led to a meeting between Fred's sister, Julia, and Grant. The two married in 1848, with the newlywed Longstreets in attendance and, according to some accounts, with Longstreet himself as groomsman.

The two friends would finally meet again following the Confederate surrender at Appomattox Court House. It was Longstreet, according to various accounts, who persuaded Lee that Grant would offer generous terms there. When Grant did just that, the mood in the room was one of stiff relief. It was the same when Grant met a few Southern officers shortly after. But as soon as he saw Longstreet in the group, he approached him warmly, grabbed his hand and said, "Pete, let us have another game of brag, to recall the days that were so pleasant."

Longstreet eventually got his amnesty and Grant became president. Grant even appointed Longstreet, then his "political friend and adherent," to the position of surveyor of customs at New Orleans. It was something of an achievement because Longstreet had made himself very unpopular in that city by publishing positive views on Reconstruction, which went against those then prevailing throughout much of the South. Longstreet remained in the job until 1873 and went on to accept other appointments: as a federal marshal, a collector of revenue, a commissioner of railroads and even as a minister to the Ottoman Empire, just two years after Grant visited there on his post-presidential world tour. Longstreet died at age 82, in 1904.

Grant died nearly two decades earlier, following two difficult terms as president and a fatal bout with throat cancer]

https://archive.nytimes.com/opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/09/an-unlikely-friendship/

3. Lincoln was of course a political genius....but his racial views are certainly not modern progressive ones and he violated the Constitution as will...including waging a horrible war to prevent a large part of the American population for daring to form their own country. (secession of course not being forbidden at the time by Federal law or by the U.S. Constitution)

[Lincoln "was sentimentally opposed to slavery, but he was afraid of freedom. He dreaded its effect on both races. He was opposed to slavery more because it was a public nuisance than because of its injustice to the oppressed black man, who's condition, he did not believe, would be greatly, if at all, benefitted by freedom."~ John F. Hume, The Abolitionists, Together with Personal Memories of the Struggle for Human Rights, 1905, p. 145]
KaiBear
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Redbrickbear said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

My man from Illinois

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2024/02/19/biden-14th-in-scholars--presidential-rankings--trump-last
Any list that does not have Polk in the top 10 is a joke.





Good catch


Polk did more for the US than any one term president in our history .


No sure why his accomplishments are so consistently ignored.
Redbrickbear
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KaiBear said:

Redbrickbear said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

My man from Illinois

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2024/02/19/biden-14th-in-scholars--presidential-rankings--trump-last
Any list that does not have Polk in the top 10 is a joke.





Good catch


Polk did more for the US than any one term president in our history .


No sure why his accomplishments are so consistently ignored.


Lots of reasons modern historians would not like Polk.

1. He was a southerner

2. He was an unabashed American patriot.

3. He promised to only serve one term…and actually fulfilled his promises.

4. Fought a war that did not just enrich the DC political class but enriched millions of poor White settlers.


America is of course not supported to fight wars that actually benefit the American people.


[Under James Knox Polk, the United States grew by more than a million square miles, adding territory that now composes the states of Arizona, Utah, Nevada, California, Oregon, Idaho, Washington, much of New Mexico, and portions of Wyoming, Montana, and Colorado. More than any other President, Polk pursued "Manifest Destiny," a phrase coined by his fellow Jacksonian Democrat, John L. O'Sullivan, to express the conviction that Providence had foreordained the United States to spread its republican institutions across North America. He accomplished every major goal that he set for himself as President and in the process successfully waged war against Mexico, obtaining for the United States most of its present boundaries as a nation.]



PS

Polk wanted more land but was sabotaged by his bureaucratic negotiators….


[On February 2, 1848, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed in Mexico without President James K. Polk's knowledge. The United States acquired about 55 percent of Mexico's territory for $15 million.

Polk's representative, Nicholas Trist, was recalled in October 1847, but Trist ignored the order to secure a peace treaty. Trist was promptly fired on his return to Washington…

Polk's initial objections to the treaty included his desire to have Baja California and property to the Baja's east as part of the treaty, a wish he had communicated to negotiator Nicholas Phillip Trist.

Polk also wanted the talks to take place in Washington, and he sent orders to Mexico that Trist had been recalled as the treaty negotiator. During the six weeks it took for Polk's orders to make their way to Trist, the diplomat realized he had a brief period to negotiate a treaty…

Trist ignored the recall order and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed in Mexico without Polk's knowledge. Trist sent a copy of the treaty by the fastest means possible to Polk. On Trist's return to Washington, he was promptly fired by Polk and denied any salary earned during treaty negotiations.]

KaiBear
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Excellent information.

Thank you.

Went to Polk's house in Tennessee years ago.

Apparently he was a small man, very reserved . A workaholic, he destroyed his health working too many hours and died soon after leaving office.
Redbrickbear
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Thee University
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Wrong slaves/workers were chosen by the South.

Imagine the US had the South plantation owners sailed their ships down the coastline and loaded up Mexicans instead. Relying on Northern slave traders was a colossal mistake.

I honestly think many Mexicans would have loaded up on their own and helped sail themselves north to Dixie.

"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
Redbrickbear
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Mitch Blood Green said:

My man from Illinois

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2024/02/19/biden-14th-in-scholars--presidential-rankings--trump-last



OsoCoreyell
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Mitch Blood Green said:

Greatest General in American History


What? There are very few military historians that hold that view. He just used his superior numbers and materials to bring about the inevitable. He stopped "playing around" with strategy, accepted that winning was inevitable if the North was willing to turn this into a war of attrition and then did so.
Redbrickbear
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OsoCoreyell said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Greatest General in American History


What? There are very few military historians that hold that view. He just used his superior numbers and materials to bring about the inevitable. He stopped "playing around" with strategy, accepted that winning was inevitable if the North was willing to turn this into a war of attrition and then did so.

I also like how Mitch called him the "Greatest General in American History" as if George Washington never existed.

What Washington did in terms of taking on a superior enemy, working with a dysfunctional Continental Congress, training up a non-professional militia force of farm boys, engaging in a two front war (fighting in the North and South), etc.

That is by far the best Generalship performance in American history...and it will never be topped

George Washington is simply the best.

And we are not even talking about Winfield Scott, Dwight D. Eisenhower, George Patton, Douglas MacArthur, etc.

(Or the generals who are apparently no longer considered Americans like Gen. Lee, Stonewall, and NBF)
Mitch Blood Green
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OsoCoreyell said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Greatest General in American History


What? There are very few military historians that hold that view. He just used his superior numbers and materials to bring about the inevitable. He stopped "playing around" with strategy, accepted that winning was inevitable if the North was willing to turn this into a war of attrition and then did so.


You just described greatness. I'll use a common reference for us. Texas Aggies. They have superior numbers, money and material. Would you send them to fight Grenada?

A few years ago, I was out with Ron Washington and I asked him "Ron, tell me about US Grant" and without skipping a beat, Ron said

"That's what greatness do"
OsoCoreyell
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Mitch Blood Green said:

OsoCoreyell said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Greatest General in American History


What? There are very few military historians that hold that view. He just used his superior numbers and materials to bring about the inevitable. He stopped "playing around" with strategy, accepted that winning was inevitable if the North was willing to turn this into a war of attrition and then did so.


You just described greatness. I'll use a common reference for us. Texas Aggies. They have superior numbers, money and material. Would you send them to fight Grenada?
Here's an analogous scenario. Patton in North Africa knew that, over time, he had the ability to overwhelm Rommel if he did what Monty was doing - i.e. fight skirmishing battles, or frontal assaults, until the numbers told. Instead, he used superior intelligence and superior tactical thinking to move at Rommel in unexpected ways and in unexpected places. The result was not only a win, but a win that preserved his fighting force to position them to rapidly use North Africa to launch into Sicily and then greater Italy. THAT was masterful generalship.
william
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BellCountyBear said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Greatest General in American History


Also likely the most chronically inebriated. Weird.
... and among the most dandruffed-ed-ed.

- KKM

{ sipping coffee }

{ eating apple danish }
POE.
KaiBear
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Mitch Blood Green said:

OsoCoreyell said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Greatest General in American History


What? There are very few military historians that hold that view. He just used his superior numbers and materials to bring about the inevitable. He stopped "playing around" with strategy, accepted that winning was inevitable if the North was willing to turn this into a war of attrition and then did so.


You just described greatness. I'll use a common reference for us. Texas Aggies. They have superior numbers, money and material. Would you send them to fight Grenada?


Not sure.

The Aggies regularly beat the living crap out of Baylor in football.

The only sport that matters in the Great State of Texas.

Including 22 of the last 24 games played.

However the only other conference teams the Aggies enjoyed such ass kicking domination was with Rice and TCU.

Against everyone else the Aggies were hopelessly mediocre. And against UT the Aggies got pounded.


So yeah, let Reagan send them in against Grenada .

But never against Quebec . The pseudo French would slaughter them .
Redbrickbear
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[Lincoln said they could not destroy the Union "except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself."...the secessionists could argue with equal plausibility that Lincoln could not preserve the Union except by some action whose constitutionality would also be in doubt.]



Waco1947
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Deconstructing Lincoln is nonsense. 200,000 white guys and blacks guys kept the Union together. The cost was horrific but slavery our nations original sin died too. At least Lincoln and who those fought began the road to freedom for blacks. That journey is not near its end because whites cannot recognize the racism in their lives. Whites will not get educated in black history. It is a willful blindness which is sad.
Jesus calls for repentance because the reign of God is at hand. Learn to move into that reign - that is true freedom for us all. Acknowledge your role in racism that's all blacks need from white America.
KaiBear
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Waco1947 said:

Deconstructing Lincoln is nonsense. 200,000 white guys and blacks guys kept the Union together. The cost was horrific but slavery our nations original sin died too. At least Lincoln and who those fought began the road to freedom for blacks. That journey is not near its end because whites cannot recognize the racism in their lives. Whites will not get educated in black history. It is a willful blindness which is sad.
Jesus calls for repentance because the reign of God is at hand. Learn to move into that reign - that is true freedom for us all. Acknowledge your role in racism that's all blacks need from white America.


A. The Union army was far larger than a mere 200,000. Closer to 600,000.
B. Over 300,000 Yankees died setting the black man free. By any reasonable measure any 'slavery debt' has already been paid in blood .
C. The biggest racists in the country today are not white. And you know it.
D. What. Black Americans want is the same thing white Americans want. A good job with good benefits, a loving spouse, and a peaceful life. Woke rhetoric means nothing.
Realitybites
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Can you imagine if Joe Biden was in a Cuban Missile Crisis situation with Russia? Would he surrender or send Putin a couple of pallets of U.S. $Benjamins$???? Or both? Sending piles of money seems to be ole Joe's solution to any problem.


Biden is in precisely such a situation and unlike JFK doesn't seem to be that interested in avoiding WW3.

As far as Lincoln, you cannot claim to be a supporter of freedom and democracy if you wish to use the force of arms to deny people their rights under the Declaration of Independence.

I would very much like for the current criticisms of him to be based on the Confederates' view of States Rights and the right to seceede. Unfortunately I suspect it is rooted in the usual DEI/ESG/Leftist nonsense that seeks to erase all white male historical figures.
KaiBear
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Realitybites said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Can you imagine if Joe Biden was in a Cuban Missile Crisis situation with Russia? Would he surrender or send Putin a couple of pallets of U.S. $Benjamins$???? Or both? Sending piles of money seems to be ole Joe's solution to any problem.


Biden is in precisely such a situation and unlike JFK doesn't seem to be that interested in avoiding WW3.


Bingo


Worse the American media is ignoring just how dangerous our position really is.


And the American people are too hopelessly ignorant / distracted to care.


Thee University
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Waco1947 said:

Deconstructing Lincoln is nonsense. 200,000 white guys and blacks guys kept the Union together. The cost was horrific but slavery our nations original sin died too. At least Lincoln and who those fought began the road to freedom for blacks. That journey is not near its end because whites cannot recognize the racism in their lives. Whites will not get educated in black history. It is a willful blindness which is sad.
Jesus calls for repentance because the reign of God is at hand. Learn to move into that reign - that is true freedom for us all. Acknowledge your role in racism that's all blacks need from white America.
Gooid grief you are an idiot!

The north threw up over 2,000,000 soldiers to fight Lincoln's War of Northern Aggression.
About 175,000 of those 2M were blacks.

The Confederates were vastly outnumbered and outgunned but managed to kill 360,000 Yankee scum of which many were either new immigrants or 1st year Americans. Lincoln had no problem sacrificing these men to keep the union intact. It was NEVER about slavery. Lincoln spoke of his disdain for blacks on many occasions.

The most racist of Americans today remain black and have been for years.

The Southern plantation owners would have been far better off by not falling in the trap the Northen slave traders set and instead sailed down to Mexico and loaded up Mexicans to help run the plantations. The Mexicans would have provided:

Superior workers
Superior attitudes
Superior family units

Blacks should admit the problems they created and do some repenting themselves. Quit exploiting white guilt in our youth. Black crime is out of control. Most of the violent crime is black on black.

Liberalism is a moral manipulation that exaggerates inequity and unfairness in American life. Liberalism undermines the spirit of self-help and individual responsibility.


"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
KaiBear
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Thee University said:

Waco1947 said:

Deconstructing Lincoln is nonsense. 200,000 white guys and blacks guys kept the Union together. The cost was horrific but slavery our nations original sin died too. At least Lincoln and who those fought began the road to freedom for blacks. That journey is not near its end because whites cannot recognize the racism in their lives. Whites will not get educated in black history. It is a willful blindness which is sad.
Jesus calls for repentance because the reign of God is at hand. Learn to move into that reign - that is true freedom for us all. Acknowledge your role in racism that's all blacks need from white America.


The north threw up over 2,000,000 soldiers to fight Lincoln's War of Northern Aggression.
About 175,000 of those 2M were blacks.

The Confederates wre vastly outnumbered and outgunned but managed to kill 360,000 Yankee scum of which many were either new immigrants or 1st year Americans.

The most racist of Americans today remain black and have been for years.



Most blacks serving in the union army never saw combat as their combat readiness was not trusted by their white officers.

Union losses in the war were staggering. Especially considering the entire population of the North was less than 30 million men , women and children.

The southern climate also took a huge toll on the northern invaders. Malaria, cholera, and poor sanitary army camp practices resulted in many epidemics.

Total estimates of union deaths from all causes range as high of 500,000.

In no way would the current culture of the United States tolerate such a fatally rate.


Thee University
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I say the only way to purge our country of the murderer Lincoln's legacy is to tear down all monuments, buildings and memorials to this thug of a man who lied to America for his own benefit and Northern shysters.
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
KaiBear
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Thee University said:

I say the only way to purge our country of the murderer Lincoln's legacy is to tear down all monuments, buildings and memorials to this thug of a man who lied to America for his own benefit and Northern shysters.


If it ever happens it will be the work of the descendants of slaves.

The same ones 300,000 Yankees died to set free.
Redbrickbear
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Yankees have always been such lovely people




RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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KaiBear said:

Thee University said:

I say the only way to purge our country of the murderer Lincoln's legacy is to tear down all monuments, buildings and memorials to this thug of a man who lied to America for his own benefit and Northern shysters.


If it ever happens it will be the work of the descendants of slaves.

The same ones 300,000 Yankees died to set free.
A little off topic, but congratulations on the Aggies invite to The Big Dance! Buena suerte!

WHOOOOOOPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
Waco1947
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Thee University said:

Waco1947 said:

Deconstructing Lincoln is nonsense. 200,000 white guys and blacks guys kept the Union together. The cost was horrific but slavery our nations original sin died too. At least Lincoln and who those fought began the road to freedom for blacks. That journey is not near its end because whites cannot recognize the racism in their lives. Whites will not get educated in black history. It is a willful blindness which is sad.
Jesus calls for repentance because the reign of God is at hand. Learn to move into that reign - that is true freedom for us all. Acknowledge your role in racism that's all blacks need from white America.
Gooid grief you are an idiot!

The north threw up over 2,000,000 soldiers to fight Lincoln's War of Northern Aggression.
About 175,000 of those 2M were blacks.

The Confederates were vastly outnumbered and outgunned but managed to kill 360,000 Yankee scum of which many were either new immigrants or 1st year Americans. Lincoln had no problem sacrificing these men to keep the union intact. It was NEVER about slavery. Lincoln spoke of his disdain for blacks on many occasions.

The most racist of Americans today remain black and have been for years.

The Southern plantation owners would have been far better off by not falling in the trap the Northen slave traders set and instead sailed down to Mexico and loaded up Mexicans to help run the plantations. The Mexicans would have provided:

Superior workers
Superior attitudes
Superior family units

Blacks should admit the problems they created and do some repenting themselves. Quit exploiting white guilt in our youth. Black crime is out of control. Most of the violent crime is black on black.

Liberalism is a moral manipulation that exaggerates inequity and unfairness in American life. Liberalism undermines the spirit of self-help and individual responsibility.



Racistt against Mexicans and African Americans
Waco1947
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Redbrickbear said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Thee University said:



I was raised rural Texan and grew quickly to understand why there is still a large percentage of those living below the Mason-Dixon who have very, very little respect for the North and their attitudes toward the South.



Man, you almost sound like you want some of them thar slave owner reparations!!!
The North made a lot of money off the slave trade....when are they going to pay reparations for that?


[The great flaw of American abolitionism as it evolved toward demands of immediate and uncompensated emancipation was the fantasy that, if achieved, the goal would have no significant adverse consequences. Yet, there would obviously be at least two. First, abrupt emancipation would bankrupt the slaveholders who were often ultimately in debt to Northern bankers. Second, it would throw millions of ex-slaves out of work suddenly requiring them to care for themselves in a broken economy caused by plantation bankruptcies. That was, in fact, almost precisely what happened after the Civil War. Emancipation impoverished the entire region, black and white. Such results make a mockery of the pious initiatives by antebellum abolitionists demanding abrupt and uncompensated emancipation.]
-Philip Leigh


[The slave trade in particular was dominated by the northern maritime industry. Rhode Island alone was responsible for half of all U.S. slave voyages. James DeWolf and his family may have been the biggest slave traders in U.S. history, but there were many others involved. For example, members of the Brown family of Providence, some of whom were prominent in the slave trade, gave substantial gifts to Rhode Island College, which was later renamed Brown University.

While local townspeople thought of the DeWolfs and other prominent families primarily as general merchants, distillers and traders who supported ship-building, warehousing, insurance and other trades and businesses, it was common knowledge that one source of this business was the cheap labor and huge profits reaped from trafficking in human beings.

The North also imported slaves, as well as transporting and selling them in the south and abroad. While the majority of enslaved Africans arrived in southern ports Charleston, South Carolina was the largest market for slave traders, including the DeWolfs most large colonial ports served as points of entry, and Africans were sold in northern ports including Philadelphia, New York, Boston, and Newport, Rhode Island.
The southern coastal states...were therefore home to the vast majority of enslaved persons. But there were slaves in each of the thirteen original colonies, and slavery was legal in the North for over two hundred years. While the northern states gradually began abolishing slavery by law starting in the 1780s, many northern states did not act against slavery until well into the 19th century, and their laws generally provided only for gradual abolition, allowing slave owners to keep their existing slaves and often their children. As a result, New Jersey, for instance, still had thousands of persons legally enslaved in the 1830s, and did not finally abolish slavery by law until 1846. As late as the outbreak of the Civil War, in fact, there were northern slaves listed on the federal census.]
-Sources: "Africans in America Part Two: Revolution." WGBH Interactive. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2narr1.html; David Eltis, Stephen D. Behrendt, David Richardson, and Herbert S. Klein, eds.
Revisionist history and totally narrow sighted. US slavery is dead and that's a good thing. The N was redo for ridding us that evil insto
KaiBear
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Waco1947 said:

Thee University said:

Waco1947 said:

Deconstructing Lincoln is nonsense. 200,000 white guys and blacks guys kept the Union together. The cost was horrific but slavery our nations original sin died too. At least Lincoln and who those fought began the road to freedom for blacks. That journey is not near its end because whites cannot recognize the racism in their lives. Whites will not get educated in black history. It is a willful blindness which is sad.
Jesus calls for repentance because the reign of God is at hand. Learn to move into that reign - that is true freedom for us all. Acknowledge your role in racism that's all blacks need from white America.
Gooid grief you are an idiot!

The north threw up over 2,000,000 soldiers to fight Lincoln's War of Northern Aggression.
About 175,000 of those 2M were blacks.

The Confederates were vastly outnumbered and outgunned but managed to kill 360,000 Yankee scum of which many were either new immigrants or 1st year Americans. Lincoln had no problem sacrificing these men to keep the union intact. It was NEVER about slavery. Lincoln spoke of his disdain for blacks on many occasions.

The most racist of Americans today remain black and have been for years.

The Southern plantation owners would have been far better off by not falling in the trap the Northen slave traders set and instead sailed down to Mexico and loaded up Mexicans to help run the plantations. The Mexicans would have provided:

Superior workers
Superior attitudes
Superior family units

Blacks should admit the problems they created and do some repenting themselves. Quit exploiting white guilt in our youth. Black crime is out of control. Most of the violent crime is black on black.

Liberalism is a moral manipulation that exaggerates inequity and unfairness in American life. Liberalism undermines the spirit of self-help and individual responsibility.



Racistt against Mexicans and African Americans
You know little about Mexicans and African Americans.
Redbrickbear
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Waco1947 said:

Redbrickbear said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Thee University said:



I was raised rural Texan and grew quickly to understand why there is still a large percentage of those living below the Mason-Dixon who have very, very little respect for the North and their attitudes toward the South.



Man, you almost sound like you want some of them thar slave owner reparations!!!
The North made a lot of money off the slave trade....when are they going to pay reparations for that?


[The great flaw of American abolitionism as it evolved toward demands of immediate and uncompensated emancipation was the fantasy that, if achieved, the goal would have no significant adverse consequences. Yet, there would obviously be at least two. First, abrupt emancipation would bankrupt the slaveholders who were often ultimately in debt to Northern bankers. Second, it would throw millions of ex-slaves out of work suddenly requiring them to care for themselves in a broken economy caused by plantation bankruptcies. That was, in fact, almost precisely what happened after the Civil War. Emancipation impoverished the entire region, black and white. Such results make a mockery of the pious initiatives by antebellum abolitionists demanding abrupt and uncompensated emancipation.]
-Philip Leigh


[The slave trade in particular was dominated by the northern maritime industry. Rhode Island alone was responsible for half of all U.S. slave voyages. James DeWolf and his family may have been the biggest slave traders in U.S. history, but there were many others involved. For example, members of the Brown family of Providence, some of whom were prominent in the slave trade, gave substantial gifts to Rhode Island College, which was later renamed Brown University.

While local townspeople thought of the DeWolfs and other prominent families primarily as general merchants, distillers and traders who supported ship-building, warehousing, insurance and other trades and businesses, it was common knowledge that one source of this business was the cheap labor and huge profits reaped from trafficking in human beings.

The North also imported slaves, as well as transporting and selling them in the south and abroad. While the majority of enslaved Africans arrived in southern ports Charleston, South Carolina was the largest market for slave traders, including the DeWolfs most large colonial ports served as points of entry, and Africans were sold in northern ports including Philadelphia, New York, Boston, and Newport, Rhode Island.
The southern coastal states...were therefore home to the vast majority of enslaved persons. But there were slaves in each of the thirteen original colonies, and slavery was legal in the North for over two hundred years. While the northern states gradually began abolishing slavery by law starting in the 1780s, many northern states did not act against slavery until well into the 19th century, and their laws generally provided only for gradual abolition, allowing slave owners to keep their existing slaves and often their children. As a result, New Jersey, for instance, still had thousands of persons legally enslaved in the 1830s, and did not finally abolish slavery by law until 1846. As late as the outbreak of the Civil War, in fact, there were northern slaves listed on the federal census.]
-Sources: "Africans in America Part Two: Revolution." WGBH Interactive. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2narr1.html; David Eltis, Stephen D. Behrendt, David Richardson, and Herbert S. Klein, eds.
Revisionist history

No, it's absolutely truthful history that the North made massive profits off the slave trade…and that they held slaves until it was no longer economically feasible

I'm sorry if you find these facts disturbing
Thee University
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Waco1947 said:

Thee University said:

Waco1947 said:

Deconstructing Lincoln is nonsense. 200,000 white guys and blacks guys kept the Union together. The cost was horrific but slavery our nations original sin died too. At least Lincoln and who those fought began the road to freedom for blacks. That journey is not near its end because whites cannot recognize the racism in their lives. Whites will not get educated in black history. It is a willful blindness which is sad.
Jesus calls for repentance because the reign of God is at hand. Learn to move into that reign - that is true freedom for us all. Acknowledge your role in racism that's all blacks need from white America.
Gooid grief you are an idiot!

The north threw up over 2,000,000 soldiers to fight Lincoln's War of Northern Aggression.
About 175,000 of those 2M were blacks.

The Confederates were vastly outnumbered and outgunned but managed to kill 360,000 Yankee scum of which many were either new immigrants or 1st year Americans. Lincoln had no problem sacrificing these men to keep the union intact. It was NEVER about slavery. Lincoln spoke of his disdain for blacks on many occasions.

The most racist of Americans today remain black and have been for years.

The Southern plantation owners would have been far better off by not falling in the trap the Northen slave traders set and instead sailed down to Mexico and loaded up Mexicans to help run the plantations. The Mexicans would have provided:

Superior workers
Superior attitudes
Superior family units

Blacks should admit the problems they created and do some repenting themselves. Quit exploiting white guilt in our youth. Black crime is out of control. Most of the violent crime is black on black.

Liberalism is a moral manipulation that exaggerates inequity and unfairness in American life. Liberalism undermines the spirit of self-help and individual responsibility.



Racistt against Mexicans and African Americans
You misspelled and mispoke.

I am a REALIST CONCERNING Mexicans and African Americans.

Unless you work for the NAACP, the Southern Poverty Law Center, the USPS or any government entity, the NBA, Democrat run major cities with a population above 1M, the BET, then I'll bet I have more Mexican close friends and African American close friends than you do.

Besides, I said nothing about Mexicans above that should hurt your feelings.

"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
Thee University
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Redbrickbear said:

Waco1947 said:

Redbrickbear said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Thee University said:



I was raised rural Texan and grew quickly to understand why there is still a large percentage of those living below the Mason-Dixon who have very, very little respect for the North and their attitudes toward the South.



Man, you almost sound like you want some of them thar slave owner reparations!!!
The North made a lot of money off the slave trade....when are they going to pay reparations for that?


[The great flaw of American abolitionism as it evolved toward demands of immediate and uncompensated emancipation was the fantasy that, if achieved, the goal would have no significant adverse consequences. Yet, there would obviously be at least two. First, abrupt emancipation would bankrupt the slaveholders who were often ultimately in debt to Northern bankers. Second, it would throw millions of ex-slaves out of work suddenly requiring them to care for themselves in a broken economy caused by plantation bankruptcies. That was, in fact, almost precisely what happened after the Civil War. Emancipation impoverished the entire region, black and white. Such results make a mockery of the pious initiatives by antebellum abolitionists demanding abrupt and uncompensated emancipation.]
-Philip Leigh


[The slave trade in particular was dominated by the northern maritime industry. Rhode Island alone was responsible for half of all U.S. slave voyages. James DeWolf and his family may have been the biggest slave traders in U.S. history, but there were many others involved. For example, members of the Brown family of Providence, some of whom were prominent in the slave trade, gave substantial gifts to Rhode Island College, which was later renamed Brown University.

While local townspeople thought of the DeWolfs and other prominent families primarily as general merchants, distillers and traders who supported ship-building, warehousing, insurance and other trades and businesses, it was common knowledge that one source of this business was the cheap labor and huge profits reaped from trafficking in human beings.

The North also imported slaves, as well as transporting and selling them in the south and abroad. While the majority of enslaved Africans arrived in southern ports Charleston, South Carolina was the largest market for slave traders, including the DeWolfs most large colonial ports served as points of entry, and Africans were sold in northern ports including Philadelphia, New York, Boston, and Newport, Rhode Island.
The southern coastal states...were therefore home to the vast majority of enslaved persons. But there were slaves in each of the thirteen original colonies, and slavery was legal in the North for over two hundred years. While the northern states gradually began abolishing slavery by law starting in the 1780s, many northern states did not act against slavery until well into the 19th century, and their laws generally provided only for gradual abolition, allowing slave owners to keep their existing slaves and often their children. As a result, New Jersey, for instance, still had thousands of persons legally enslaved in the 1830s, and did not finally abolish slavery by law until 1846. As late as the outbreak of the Civil War, in fact, there were northern slaves listed on the federal census.]
-Sources: "Africans in America Part Two: Revolution." WGBH Interactive. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2narr1.html; David Eltis, Stephen D. Behrendt, David Richardson, and Herbert S. Klein, eds.
Revisionist history

No, it's absolutely truthful history that the North made massive profits off the slave trade…and that they held slaves until it was no longer economically feasible

I'm sorry if you find these facts disturbing
More FACTS

On August 14th, 1862, Lincoln invited a group of free black leaders to the White House to tell them, "there is an unwillingness on the part of our people, harsh as it may be, for you free colored people to remain with us." He urged them to lead others of their race to a colonization site in Central America. Lincoln was the first president to invite a delegation of blacks to the White House and he did so to ask them to leave the country. Later that year, in a message to Congress, he argued not just for voluntary colonization but for the forcible removal of free blacks.

Lincoln was a horrific president.
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
parch
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Redbrickbear said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

KaiBear said:



But dying so soon after the war was won elevated Lincoln to a status completely out of proportion to his accomplishments.

Same thing occurred involving JFK.

Whose presidency, objectively, was a complete failure.




I respectfully disagree on both counts. Lincoln made some tough decisions and was hated by half the country. "


He violated the Constitution and suspended civil liberties to prevent the Southern States from being independent.

Got 600,000 Americans killed vs letting natural secession take place and let people form their own country.

He was basically King George but more hypocritical.

(King George of course did not exercise real political power in the British system)
What a ridiculous position any respected historian would laugh out of the room.

You need to read up on the constitutionality of Lincoln's position to wage war in the first place.

The only place where it can be argued Lincoln was in significant breach of the constitution was in the broad exercise of wartime powers on civilian arrests, but then he's also in line with every American wartime president in that regard (and every wartime government in history that I'm aware of). Otherwise Lincoln's lawfulness to pursue war against a breakaway American faction (not nation) was upheld by Article II, and in times when it wasn't at the point of action it was subsequently obtained by Congress.

The South argued that they were lawfully justified in seceding through something called "compact theory," which purports that states exist in a state of treaty with the federal government, meaning they could simply withdraw from that treaty and be within their legal right to do so.

This was of course nonsense, as Lincoln and his cabinet rightly asserted, and drawing from not just the Constitution but nationally accepted interpretations like the Federalist Papers, Lincoln's case (as ours would be today), was that once bound by the Constitution a state does not have the right to forcibly break those bonds for any reason.

And if you're clinging to "Lincoln didn't wage war to free the slaves" as a justification for how evil he was, a reasonable mind could grasp that in 5th grade American history class. Read the whole story.
Oldbear83
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I have to admit, I chuckled at the idea of Waco1947 working for anyone ...
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
KaiBear
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Oldbear83 said:

I have to admit, I chuckled at the idea of Waco1947 working for anyone ...


He'd be filing complaints with HR within an hour .
 
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