I mean don't tell me you're just going to ignore the part that's inconvenient for your position.
The Putin Interview
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Last: 25 days ago by Mothra
Wait a second, are we referring to an "opinion in passing"?Sam Lowry said:
I mean don't tell me you're just going to ignore the part that's inconvenient for your position.
In all seriousness, help me understand what you believe that statement proves.
What you got is thinking you can say schools are closed without getting fact checked. Then you posted a link that you hope no one read. Now you want to argue that maybe at some point some schools were closed because Ukranians take their border control more seriously than we do.Sam Lowry said:
What I got was that most schools were closed and not, as I believe you said, open. If you want sources on Ukrainian attacks, take your pick. Here's one from ten years ago and one from this year.
Anyway, I'm sure we're both happy that order is being restored and the rebel scum -- sorry, I mean civilians -- will be able to get on with their lives.
Sam Lowry said:Your not very conservative allies are murdering hundreds of thousands of people in this vicious proxy war. It's one of the most evil things the United States has ever done, and that's saying something.ron.reagan said:Conservatives now using the russiaphobia card as an excuse to murder hundreds of thousands of people. It really highlights the stupidity and hypocrisy is just a different flavor between our two parties.Sam Lowry said:If anyone is gripped by a furor these days, it would seem to be the anti-Russian zealots.J.R. said:Just parroting their Furor!Mothra said:We have some real buffoons in the party, that is for sure. There are several on this thread.ron.reagan said:Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”
— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024
Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”
Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA
Unfortunately most Americans are either too busy to connect the dots involving US manipulations ; or believe using the Ukrainian people as cannon fodder on behalf of US geopolitical interests is A-OK.
Unfortunately most Americans connect whatever dots they want toKaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:Your not very conservative allies are murdering hundreds of thousands of people in this vicious proxy war. It's one of the most evil things the United States has ever done, and that's saying something.ron.reagan said:Conservatives now using the russiaphobia card as an excuse to murder hundreds of thousands of people. It really highlights the stupidity and hypocrisy is just a different flavor between our two parties.Sam Lowry said:If anyone is gripped by a furor these days, it would seem to be the anti-Russian zealots.J.R. said:Just parroting their Furor!Mothra said:We have some real buffoons in the party, that is for sure. There are several on this thread.ron.reagan said:Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”
— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024
Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”
Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA
Unfortunately most Americans are either too busy to connect the dots involving US manipulations ; or believe using the Ukrainian people as cannon fodder on behalf of US geopolitical interests is A-OK.
ron.reagan said:Unfortunately most Americans connect whatever dots they want toKaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:Your not very conservative allies are murdering hundreds of thousands of people in this vicious proxy war. It's one of the most evil things the United States has ever done, and that's saying something.ron.reagan said:Conservatives now using the russiaphobia card as an excuse to murder hundreds of thousands of people. It really highlights the stupidity and hypocrisy is just a different flavor between our two parties.Sam Lowry said:If anyone is gripped by a furor these days, it would seem to be the anti-Russian zealots.J.R. said:Just parroting their Furor!Mothra said:We have some real buffoons in the party, that is for sure. There are several on this thread.ron.reagan said:Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”
— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024
Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”
Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA
Unfortunately most Americans are either too busy to connect the dots involving US manipulations ; or believe using the Ukrainian people as cannon fodder on behalf of US geopolitical interests is A-OK.
LOL
Can't begin to connect the dots when one can't even find the countries involved on a map.
I'm glad you are willing to admit that.KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:Unfortunately most Americans connect whatever dots they want toKaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:Your not very conservative allies are murdering hundreds of thousands of people in this vicious proxy war. It's one of the most evil things the United States has ever done, and that's saying something.ron.reagan said:Conservatives now using the russiaphobia card as an excuse to murder hundreds of thousands of people. It really highlights the stupidity and hypocrisy is just a different flavor between our two parties.Sam Lowry said:If anyone is gripped by a furor these days, it would seem to be the anti-Russian zealots.J.R. said:Just parroting their Furor!Mothra said:We have some real buffoons in the party, that is for sure. There are several on this thread.ron.reagan said:Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”
— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024
Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”
Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA
Unfortunately most Americans are either too busy to connect the dots involving US manipulations ; or believe using the Ukrainian people as cannon fodder on behalf of US geopolitical interests is A-OK.
LOL
Can't begin to connect the dots when one can't even find the countries involved on a map.
ron.reagan said:I'm glad you are willing to admit that.KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:Unfortunately most Americans connect whatever dots they want toKaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:Your not very conservative allies are murdering hundreds of thousands of people in this vicious proxy war. It's one of the most evil things the United States has ever done, and that's saying something.ron.reagan said:Conservatives now using the russiaphobia card as an excuse to murder hundreds of thousands of people. It really highlights the stupidity and hypocrisy is just a different flavor between our two parties.Sam Lowry said:If anyone is gripped by a furor these days, it would seem to be the anti-Russian zealots.J.R. said:Just parroting their Furor!Mothra said:We have some real buffoons in the party, that is for sure. There are several on this thread.ron.reagan said:Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”
— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024
Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”
Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA
Unfortunately most Americans are either too busy to connect the dots involving US manipulations ; or believe using the Ukrainian people as cannon fodder on behalf of US geopolitical interests is A-OK.
LOL
Can't begin to connect the dots when one can't even find the countries involved on a map.
So 'clever' yet so mediocre.
The internet clearly is the place for you .
Except they were closed. Don't feel too bad about taking the loss here. It's a small one compared to what's coming.ron.reagan said:What you got is thinking you can say schools are closed without getting fact checked. Then you posted a link that you hope no one read. Now you want to argue that maybe at some point some schools were closed because Ukranians take their border control more seriously than we do.Sam Lowry said:
What I got was that most schools were closed and not, as I believe you said, open. If you want sources on Ukrainian attacks, take your pick. Here's one from ten years ago and one from this year.
Anyway, I'm sure we're both happy that order is being restored and the rebel scum -- sorry, I mean civilians -- will be able to get on with their lives.
It's the most important of several details in the article that tell a different story from the headline. When it says the violence was strategic and the orders were to kill everyone, what it really means is that the Russians were pursuing enemy combatants and they weren't taking prisoners. While it does appear the violence was excessive, that is a bit different from targeting innocent civilians.Mothra said:Wait a second, are we referring to an "opinion in passing"?Sam Lowry said:
I mean don't tell me you're just going to ignore the part that's inconvenient for your position.
In all seriousness, help me understand what you believe that statement proves.
Sam Lowry said:It's the most important of several details in the article that tell a different story from the headline. When it says the violence was strategic and the orders were to kill everyone, what it really means is that the Russians were pursuing enemy combatants and they weren't taking prisoners. While it does appear the violence was excessive, that is a bit different from targeting innocent civilians.Mothra said:Wait a second, are we referring to an "opinion in passing"?Sam Lowry said:
I mean don't tell me you're just going to ignore the part that's inconvenient for your position.
In all seriousness, help me understand what you believe that statement proves.
Good grief....
Sam Lowry said:Except they were closed. Don't feel too bad about taking the loss here. It's a small one compared to what's coming.ron.reagan said:What you got is thinking you can say schools are closed without getting fact checked. Then you posted a link that you hope no one read. Now you want to argue that maybe at some point some schools were closed because Ukranians take their border control more seriously than we do.Sam Lowry said:
What I got was that most schools were closed and not, as I believe you said, open. If you want sources on Ukrainian attacks, take your pick. Here's one from ten years ago and one from this year.
Anyway, I'm sure we're both happy that order is being restored and the rebel scum -- sorry, I mean civilians -- will be able to get on with their lives.
LOL! Shill gonna shill.
So that, in your mind, proves...Sam Lowry said:It's the most important of several details in the article that tell a different story from the headline. When it says the violence was strategic and the orders were to kill everyone, what it really means is that the Russians were pursuing enemy combatants and they weren't taking prisoners. While it does appear the violence was excessive, that is a bit different from targeting innocent civilians.Mothra said:Wait a second, are we referring to an "opinion in passing"?Sam Lowry said:
I mean don't tell me you're just going to ignore the part that's inconvenient for your position.
In all seriousness, help me understand what you believe that statement proves.
And I suppose we are to ignore that Russian troops were killing Ukrainian civilians with abandon, as stated in all of the articles?
"Excessive." LOL.
"Excessive incidental death" is a term from the UN reports cited in your articles. "Killing with abandon" is your own characterization. There are some facts I wasn't aware of, for example the extent to which things like electrical infrastructure were destroyed. However, the UN also states that more evidence is needed to determine whether those attacks were directed against the civilian population.Mothra said:So that, in your mind, proves...Sam Lowry said:It's the most important of several details in the article that tell a different story from the headline. When it says the violence was strategic and the orders were to kill everyone, what it really means is that the Russians were pursuing enemy combatants and they weren't taking prisoners. While it does appear the violence was excessive, that is a bit different from targeting innocent civilians.Mothra said:Wait a second, are we referring to an "opinion in passing"?Sam Lowry said:
I mean don't tell me you're just going to ignore the part that's inconvenient for your position.
In all seriousness, help me understand what you believe that statement proves.
And I suppose we are to ignore that Russian troops were killing Ukrainian civilians with abandon, as stated in all of the articles?
"Excessive." LOL.
I guess the accounts of torture by Russian soldiers are "incidental" to your mind, Sam?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
There's no excuse for that, but I haven't seen recent reports of it either. Everything in the articles is from the early months of the war.Oldbear83 said:
I guess the accounts of torture by Russian soldiers are "incidental" to your mind, Sam?
No recent reports... I guess that makes it ok then.Sam Lowry said:There's no excuse for that, but I haven't seen recent reports of it either. Everything in the articles is from the early months of the war.Oldbear83 said:
I guess the accounts of torture by Russian soldiers are "incidental" to your mind, Sam?
Sam Lowry said:"Excessive incidental death" is a term from the UN reports cited in your articles. "Killing with abandon" is your own characterization. There are some facts I wasn't aware of, for example the extent to which things like electrical infrastructure were destroyed. However, the UN also states that more evidence is needed to determine whether those attacks were directed against the civilian population.Mothra said:So that, in your mind, proves...Sam Lowry said:It's the most important of several details in the article that tell a different story from the headline. When it says the violence was strategic and the orders were to kill everyone, what it really means is that the Russians were pursuing enemy combatants and they weren't taking prisoners. While it does appear the violence was excessive, that is a bit different from targeting innocent civilians.Mothra said:Wait a second, are we referring to an "opinion in passing"?Sam Lowry said:
I mean don't tell me you're just going to ignore the part that's inconvenient for your position.
In all seriousness, help me understand what you believe that statement proves.
And I suppose we are to ignore that Russian troops were killing Ukrainian civilians with abandon, as stated in all of the articles?
"Excessive." LOL.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/22/video/russia-ukraine-bucha-massacre-takeaways.html
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/russian-general-troops-killed-civilians-ukraine/
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/deadliest-civilian-attacks-russias-invasion-ukraine-2023-10-05/
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
LOL just no.
About as honest as Putin's election results.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Sure it does, especially when you have multiple reports of human rights atrocities committed by Russian soldiers.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
But I am not surprised in the least you attempt to downplay or minimize the ample evidence of same.
Oldbear83 said:About as honest as Putin's election results.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
I honestly did not know Moscow did lame "every vote matters" propaganda bs
I thought they might be honest enough to just lean into the whole idea of "yes we are an autocracy and proud of it"
Really just shows that Russia and China don't just make crappy knock off U.S. material products….they also do crappy knockoffs of our cultural products
Russian propaganda video shows election worker dodging shells on the frontlines to bring ballot boxes to soldiers in the trenches.
— Richard Hanania (@RichardHanania) March 16, 2024
Because that’s why Russia fights, free and fair elections.
Must be demoralizing to live in a country where propaganda is aimed at Hinkle-level IQ. pic.twitter.com/GglWxk1igD
There are multiple reports of Ukrainian atrocities too. The question is how widespread and systematic they are.Mothra said:Sure it does, especially when you have multiple reports of human rights atrocities committed by Russian soldiers.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
But I am not surprised in the least you attempt to downplay or minimize the ample evidence of same.
Sam Lowry said:There are multiple reports of Ukrainian atrocities too. The question is how widespread and systematic they are.Mothra said:Sure it does, especially when you have multiple reports of human rights atrocities committed by Russian soldiers.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
But I am not surprised in the least you attempt to downplay or minimize the ample evidence of same.
I appreciate the whataboutism.
No, I was just trying to explain the difference between anecdotal and quantitative evidence.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:There are multiple reports of Ukrainian atrocities too. The question is how widespread and systematic they are.Mothra said:Sure it does, especially when you have multiple reports of human rights atrocities committed by Russian soldiers.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
But I am not surprised in the least you attempt to downplay or minimize the ample evidence of same.
I appreciate the whataboutism.
... by using some very subjective "definitions", I observe.Sam Lowry said:No, I was just trying to explain the difference between anecdotal and quantitative evidence.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:There are multiple reports of Ukrainian atrocities too. The question is how widespread and systematic they are.Mothra said:Sure it does, especially when you have multiple reports of human rights atrocities committed by Russian soldiers.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
But I am not surprised in the least you attempt to downplay or minimize the ample evidence of same.
I appreciate the whataboutism.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
I am sure they're all just made up stories. Mother Russia wouldn't do anything like that, since this is a completely justified and moral invasion and all...Sam Lowry said:No, I was just trying to explain the difference between anecdotal and quantitative evidence.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:There are multiple reports of Ukrainian atrocities too. The question is how widespread and systematic they are.Mothra said:Sure it does, especially when you have multiple reports of human rights atrocities committed by Russian soldiers.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
But I am not surprised in the least you attempt to downplay or minimize the ample evidence of same.
I appreciate the whataboutism.
Again, the justification of the war and the conduct of the war are different issues.Mothra said:I am sure they're all just made up stories. Mother Russia wouldn't do anything like that, since this is a completely justified and moral invasion and all...Sam Lowry said:No, I was just trying to explain the difference between anecdotal and quantitative evidence.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:There are multiple reports of Ukrainian atrocities too. The question is how widespread and systematic they are.Mothra said:Sure it does, especially when you have multiple reports of human rights atrocities committed by Russian soldiers.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
But I am not surprised in the least you attempt to downplay or minimize the ample evidence of same.
I appreciate the whataboutism.
So, invading was the morally-right decision in your mind, but you may not approve of Russia's war-time tactics?Sam Lowry said:Again, the justification of the war and the conduct of the war are different issues.Mothra said:I am sure they're all just made up stories. Mother Russia wouldn't do anything like that, since this is a completely justified and moral invasion and all...Sam Lowry said:No, I was just trying to explain the difference between anecdotal and quantitative evidence.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:There are multiple reports of Ukrainian atrocities too. The question is how widespread and systematic they are.Mothra said:Sure it does, especially when you have multiple reports of human rights atrocities committed by Russian soldiers.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
But I am not surprised in the least you attempt to downplay or minimize the ample evidence of same.
I appreciate the whataboutism.
Right.Mothra said:So, invading was the morally-right decision in your mind, but you may not approve of Russia's war-time tactics?Sam Lowry said:Again, the justification of the war and the conduct of the war are different issues.Mothra said:I am sure they're all just made up stories. Mother Russia wouldn't do anything like that, since this is a completely justified and moral invasion and all...Sam Lowry said:No, I was just trying to explain the difference between anecdotal and quantitative evidence.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:There are multiple reports of Ukrainian atrocities too. The question is how widespread and systematic they are.Mothra said:Sure it does, especially when you have multiple reports of human rights atrocities committed by Russian soldiers.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
But I am not surprised in the least you attempt to downplay or minimize the ample evidence of same.
I appreciate the whataboutism.
What war-time tactics do you not approve of, exactly?Sam Lowry said:Right.Mothra said:So, invading was the morally-right decision in your mind, but you may not approve of Russia's war-time tactics?Sam Lowry said:Again, the justification of the war and the conduct of the war are different issues.Mothra said:I am sure they're all just made up stories. Mother Russia wouldn't do anything like that, since this is a completely justified and moral invasion and all...Sam Lowry said:No, I was just trying to explain the difference between anecdotal and quantitative evidence.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:There are multiple reports of Ukrainian atrocities too. The question is how widespread and systematic they are.Mothra said:Sure it does, especially when you have multiple reports of human rights atrocities committed by Russian soldiers.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
But I am not surprised in the least you attempt to downplay or minimize the ample evidence of same.
I appreciate the whataboutism.
And what would you like to see happen in Russia's morally just destruction of Ukraine? Kill/imprison Ukrainian leadership and take over the country? Just incorporate it into mother Russia as another Russian state or territory, and subjugate its people? And if/when that happens, will Russia be morally just if it decides to invade other surrounding countries, given your stated justification for the war?
Guess how many times the US has invaded Mexico.Mothra said:So, invading was the morally-right decision in your mind, but you may not approve of Russia's war-time tactics?Sam Lowry said:Again, the justification of the war and the conduct of the war are different issues.Mothra said:I am sure they're all just made up stories. Mother Russia wouldn't do anything like that, since this is a completely justified and moral invasion and all...Sam Lowry said:No, I was just trying to explain the difference between anecdotal and quantitative evidence.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:There are multiple reports of Ukrainian atrocities too. The question is how widespread and systematic they are.Mothra said:Sure it does, especially when you have multiple reports of human rights atrocities committed by Russian soldiers.Sam Lowry said:One can always cherry-pick incidents for emotional effect. I take issue with the characterization because the evidence doesn't support it overall.Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:
Not sure this adds anything to the discussion. It's just multiplying the same or similar reports of civilian casualties, which we all agree do happen.
Providing evidence of killing with abandon - a characterization you seemed to take issue with.
But I am not surprised in the least you attempt to downplay or minimize the ample evidence of same.
I appreciate the whataboutism.