Lincoln - the North's Farce That Keeps on Giving Even Today

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Vae Victis
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Thee University said:

Many Americans cherish the image of Honest Abe Lincoln: a lad born in humble circumstances who succeeded by hard, sleeves-rolled-up work; became President, fulfilling his lifelong goal of freeing the slaves, meanwhile saving government of, by and for the people; and was martyred and wafted to Heaven by angels.
This image is folklore, no more related to the facts of Lincoln's career than the legend of Paul Bunyan, but the image seems ineradicable. For many it serves as the cornerstone of their identity as members of a peculiarly virtuous American nation, as a substitute for religion and cultural heritage. I say folklore and not myth because a genuine myth rises from the people, but folklore is an artificial commercial product.
There has always been a minority who have questioned the folklore. They have pointed out that Lincoln was a wealthy corporation lawyer and a crafty and pathologically ambitious politician, who had an ambiguous and opportunistic relationship to slavery and Christianity. Who carried out a cruel war of invasion and conquest against other Americans, countenancing total war against civilians. Who caused a war that he thought would give him a short and easy victory but led to the greatest bloodbath in American history. Who turned loose the slaves without any interest in their survival or progress. Who installed the rule of Big Business in U.S. affairs. And who violently changed the American regime from a Union into a centralized empire.
There are some, like George Will and James McPherson, who admit that Lincoln made a revolutionary change in our country but praise that as a good thing. But many of us who are dissatisfied with living in a decaying American empire think that Lincoln revolution is the key to many of today's ills and that Americans must obtain a realistic view of his history in order to recover a healthy course.
The anti-Lincoln argument has created a great literature in the past few decades. Dr. Thomas DiLorenzo's works, The Real Lincoln and Lincoln Unmasked are seminal in this effort. The poet Edgar Lee Masters's expose' from the early 20th century, Lincoln-The Man, has been republished. We also have Charles T. Pace, Lincoln as He Really Was; Jonathan White, Northern Opposition to Mr. Lincoln's War; John A. Emison, Lincoln Uber Ales; Howard White, Rebirthing Lincoln; and recently Walter D. Kennedy and Al Benson, Lincoln, Marx, and the GOP, and Kennedy's Lincoln: Non-Christian President. I understand there is a book in process with new information about Lincoln's less than philanthropic treatment of the slaves acquired from his wife's family.
"Lincoln's Quest for Empire," a new two-hour documentary, is a splendid addition to the true Lincoln case. One viewer writes: "I didn't think anyone in our times had the courage to tell the truth on so many levels." Another says: "You will never find anywhere a superior presentation in word and picture of what happened in those {Lincoln] years and its questionable results."
The documentary was produced by the Seppi family of Californiaa long project based on their own knowledge and resources. They are neither professional historians nor professional documentary makers, but they have mastered both crafts superbly.
There are beautiful pictorial selections and a dozen extended interviews covering every varied aspect of the Lincoln case with a very appropriate theme "Lincoln's Quest for Empire." Among the many interviewed are people who will be recognized by most readers of this siteDonald Kennedy, Donald Livingston, Paul Graham, the Rev. J. Steven Wilkins, the Rev. Douglas Wilson, Kirkpatrick Sale, and others.
Here is a good and unique presentation of those troubled years of American history, the long effects of which trouble many of us today. The DVD can be acquired at https://lincolnsquestforempire.com and other formats will become available


Dumbest post I've read in awhile.
Thee University
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Vae Victis said:

Thee University said:

Many Americans cherish the image of Honest Abe Lincoln: a lad born in humble circumstances who succeeded by hard, sleeves-rolled-up work; became President, fulfilling his lifelong goal of freeing the slaves, meanwhile saving government of, by and for the people; and was martyred and wafted to Heaven by angels.
This image is folklore, no more related to the facts of Lincoln's career than the legend of Paul Bunyan, but the image seems ineradicable. For many it serves as the cornerstone of their identity as members of a peculiarly virtuous American nation, as a substitute for religion and cultural heritage. I say folklore and not myth because a genuine myth rises from the people, but folklore is an artificial commercial product.
There has always been a minority who have questioned the folklore. They have pointed out that Lincoln was a wealthy corporation lawyer and a crafty and pathologically ambitious politician, who had an ambiguous and opportunistic relationship to slavery and Christianity. Who carried out a cruel war of invasion and conquest against other Americans, countenancing total war against civilians. Who caused a war that he thought would give him a short and easy victory but led to the greatest bloodbath in American history. Who turned loose the slaves without any interest in their survival or progress. Who installed the rule of Big Business in U.S. affairs. And who violently changed the American regime from a Union into a centralized empire.
There are some, like George Will and James McPherson, who admit that Lincoln made a revolutionary change in our country but praise that as a good thing. But many of us who are dissatisfied with living in a decaying American empire think that Lincoln revolution is the key to many of today's ills and that Americans must obtain a realistic view of his history in order to recover a healthy course.
The anti-Lincoln argument has created a great literature in the past few decades. Dr. Thomas DiLorenzo's works, The Real Lincoln and Lincoln Unmasked are seminal in this effort. The poet Edgar Lee Masters's expose' from the early 20th century, Lincoln-The Man, has been republished. We also have Charles T. Pace, Lincoln as He Really Was; Jonathan White, Northern Opposition to Mr. Lincoln's War; John A. Emison, Lincoln Uber Ales; Howard White, Rebirthing Lincoln; and recently Walter D. Kennedy and Al Benson, Lincoln, Marx, and the GOP, and Kennedy's Lincoln: Non-Christian President. I understand there is a book in process with new information about Lincoln's less than philanthropic treatment of the slaves acquired from his wife's family.
"Lincoln's Quest for Empire," a new two-hour documentary, is a splendid addition to the true Lincoln case. One viewer writes: "I didn't think anyone in our times had the courage to tell the truth on so many levels." Another says: "You will never find anywhere a superior presentation in word and picture of what happened in those {Lincoln] years and its questionable results."
The documentary was produced by the Seppi family of Californiaa long project based on their own knowledge and resources. They are neither professional historians nor professional documentary makers, but they have mastered both crafts superbly.
There are beautiful pictorial selections and a dozen extended interviews covering every varied aspect of the Lincoln case with a very appropriate theme "Lincoln's Quest for Empire." Among the many interviewed are people who will be recognized by most readers of this siteDonald Kennedy, Donald Livingston, Paul Graham, the Rev. J. Steven Wilkins, the Rev. Douglas Wilson, Kirkpatrick Sale, and others.
Here is a good and unique presentation of those troubled years of American history, the long effects of which trouble many of us today. The DVD can be acquired at https://lincolnsquestforempire.com and other formats will become available


Dumbest post I've read in awhile.
You just topped it with your post in the women's basketball section:

Anyone think Crooks would score much against Brittney? I don't.

Congrats. My advice? Stay in the women's basketball section where you belong.
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
Bestweekeverr
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Thee University said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Two questions

1. Who fired the first shots of the Civil War?
2. Why did Abraham Lincoln fight so hard for the 13th Amendment?
The Confederates, in 34 hours, won the first battle of the War of Northern Aggression.

The Confederates also won the final battle of the War of Northern Aggression by trouncing Union forces in the Battle of Palmito Ranch. Colonel Rip Ford chased the Yankees 7 miles before turning back. Body count: Union 117 dead, Confederates 6 dead.


Lincoln fought for the 13th Amendment because it was a WAR MEASURE, not a freedom of the slaves measure.

Lincoln's own Secretary of State said. "We have just freed slaves in territories that we do not control and left them in slavery in territories we do control."

Lincoln was running through generals and generals while getting his ass kicked by Confederates of the small Army of Northern Virginia. Lincoln and his advisors had decided that a Union proclamation freeing slaves in Southern territories would produce a slave rebellion and Lee's invinvible army would run home to protect their wives and children. Wrong!

The misrepresentation of the War of Northern Aggression as Lincoln's war to free slaves is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with Lincoln's view of blacks. Lincoln said, "I have said that the seperation of the races is the only perfect preventitive of amalgamation [of the white & black races]....Such seperation....must be affected by colonization" [sending blacks to Liberia or Central America] "Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and....favorable...to....our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime."

"I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people."

The Great Emancipator??????
Wow with all those victories, surely the Confederates won the war right?
Redbrickbear
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Bestweekeverr said:

Thee University said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Two questions

1. Who fired the first shots of the Civil War?
2. Why did Abraham Lincoln fight so hard for the 13th Amendment?
The Confederates, in 34 hours, won the first battle of the War of Northern Aggression.

The Confederates also won the final battle of the War of Northern Aggression by trouncing Union forces in the Battle of Palmito Ranch. Colonel Rip Ford chased the Yankees 7 miles before turning back. Body count: Union 117 dead, Confederates 6 dead.


Lincoln fought for the 13th Amendment because it was a WAR MEASURE, not a freedom of the slaves measure.

Lincoln's own Secretary of State said. "We have just freed slaves in territories that we do not control and left them in slavery in territories we do control."

Lincoln was running through generals and generals while getting his ass kicked by Confederates of the small Army of Northern Virginia. Lincoln and his advisors had decided that a Union proclamation freeing slaves in Southern territories would produce a slave rebellion and Lee's invinvible army would run home to protect their wives and children. Wrong!

The misrepresentation of the War of Northern Aggression as Lincoln's war to free slaves is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with Lincoln's view of blacks. Lincoln said, "I have said that the seperation of the races is the only perfect preventitive of amalgamation [of the white & black races]....Such seperation....must be affected by colonization" [sending blacks to Liberia or Central America] "Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and....favorable...to....our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime."

"I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people."

The Great Emancipator??????
Wow with all those victories, surely the Confederates won the war right?


Without military intervention by Britain or France if was also going to be hard for the CSA to break off from the USA.

9 million people vs 24 million people

Not to mention the South was heavily agricultural while the North was rapidly industrializing (off the back of taxes/tariffs imposed on the south)
Bestweekeverr
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Redbrickbear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Thee University said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Two questions

1. Who fired the first shots of the Civil War?
2. Why did Abraham Lincoln fight so hard for the 13th Amendment?
The Confederates, in 34 hours, won the first battle of the War of Northern Aggression.

The Confederates also won the final battle of the War of Northern Aggression by trouncing Union forces in the Battle of Palmito Ranch. Colonel Rip Ford chased the Yankees 7 miles before turning back. Body count: Union 117 dead, Confederates 6 dead.


Lincoln fought for the 13th Amendment because it was a WAR MEASURE, not a freedom of the slaves measure.

Lincoln's own Secretary of State said. "We have just freed slaves in territories that we do not control and left them in slavery in territories we do control."

Lincoln was running through generals and generals while getting his ass kicked by Confederates of the small Army of Northern Virginia. Lincoln and his advisors had decided that a Union proclamation freeing slaves in Southern territories would produce a slave rebellion and Lee's invinvible army would run home to protect their wives and children. Wrong!

The misrepresentation of the War of Northern Aggression as Lincoln's war to free slaves is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with Lincoln's view of blacks. Lincoln said, "I have said that the seperation of the races is the only perfect preventitive of amalgamation [of the white & black races]....Such seperation....must be affected by colonization" [sending blacks to Liberia or Central America] "Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and....favorable...to....our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime."

"I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people."

The Great Emancipator??????
Wow with all those victories, surely the Confederates won the war right?


Without military intervention by Britain or France if was also going to be hard for the CSA to break off from the USA.

9 million people vs 24 million people

Not to mention the South was heavily agricultural while the North was rapidly industrializing (off the back of taxes/tariffs imposed on the south)
Sounds like they probably shouldn't have started the war then.
KaiBear
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Bestweekeverr said:

Thee University said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Two questions

1. Who fired the first shots of the Civil War?
2. Why did Abraham Lincoln fight so hard for the 13th Amendment?
The Confederates, in 34 hours, won the first battle of the War of Northern Aggression.

The Confederates also won the final battle of the War of Northern Aggression by trouncing Union forces in the Battle of Palmito Ranch. Colonel Rip Ford chased the Yankees 7 miles before turning back. Body count: Union 117 dead, Confederates 6 dead.


Lincoln fought for the 13th Amendment because it was a WAR MEASURE, not a freedom of the slaves measure.

Lincoln's own Secretary of State said. "We have just freed slaves in territories that we do not control and left them in slavery in territories we do control."

Lincoln was running through generals and generals while getting his ass kicked by Confederates of the small Army of Northern Virginia. Lincoln and his advisors had decided that a Union proclamation freeing slaves in Southern territories would produce a slave rebellion and Lee's invinvible army would run home to protect their wives and children. Wrong!

The misrepresentation of the War of Northern Aggression as Lincoln's war to free slaves is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with Lincoln's view of blacks. Lincoln said, "I have said that the seperation of the races is the only perfect preventitive of amalgamation [of the white & black races]....Such seperation....must be affected by colonization" [sending blacks to Liberia or Central America] "Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and....favorable...to....our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime."

"I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people."

The Great Emancipator??????
Wow with all those victories, surely the Confederates won the war right?
Somehow, I don't feel like the North ,won either.

Affirmative Action is still ongoing.
Thee University
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25% of the North soldiers were immigrants while only 5% of the South soldiers were immigrants. Many got right off the ship and were given a gun by the Yankees.

We killed over 360,000 Yankees. Far more soldiers than the North killed.

That's alright. We killed over 39,000 New Yorkers.
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
Bestweekeverr
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Thee University said:

25% of the North soldiers were immigrants while only 5% of the South soldiers were immigrants. Many got right off the ship and were given a gun by the Yankees.

We killed over 360,000 Yankees. Far more soldiers than the North killed.

That's alright. We killed over 39,000 New Yorkers.
Then you must have won the war right?
Oldbear83
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"We"? You were personally there?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Bestweekeverr
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Oldbear83 said:

"We"? You were personally there?
He's talking about the young southern men he conscripted to die so that he could keep his slaves.
Oldbear83
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Bestweekeverr said:

Oldbear83 said:

"We"? You were personally there?
He's talking about the young southern men he conscripted to die so that he could keep his slaves.
I thought he'd made a working time machine. If I had one of those, I'd waste it on visiting all the important dates in history, like Baylor beating Texas in football 1974 on their way to the SWC title, or finding a way to sneak in to Indy in 2021 to see us win the Basketball Natty.

Zero interest in being present at a battlefield. Cannot imagine anyone wanting to be in one who has the first idea what that is like.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Redbrickbear
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Bestweekeverr said:

Redbrickbear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Thee University said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Two questions

1. Who fired the first shots of the Civil War?
2. Why did Abraham Lincoln fight so hard for the 13th Amendment?
The Confederates, in 34 hours, won the first battle of the War of Northern Aggression.

The Confederates also won the final battle of the War of Northern Aggression by trouncing Union forces in the Battle of Palmito Ranch. Colonel Rip Ford chased the Yankees 7 miles before turning back. Body count: Union 117 dead, Confederates 6 dead.


Lincoln fought for the 13th Amendment because it was a WAR MEASURE, not a freedom of the slaves measure.

Lincoln's own Secretary of State said. "We have just freed slaves in territories that we do not control and left them in slavery in territories we do control."

Lincoln was running through generals and generals while getting his ass kicked by Confederates of the small Army of Northern Virginia. Lincoln and his advisors had decided that a Union proclamation freeing slaves in Southern territories would produce a slave rebellion and Lee's invinvible army would run home to protect their wives and children. Wrong!

The misrepresentation of the War of Northern Aggression as Lincoln's war to free slaves is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with Lincoln's view of blacks. Lincoln said, "I have said that the seperation of the races is the only perfect preventitive of amalgamation [of the white & black races]....Such seperation....must be affected by colonization" [sending blacks to Liberia or Central America] "Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and....favorable...to....our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime."

"I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people."

The Great Emancipator??????
Wow with all those victories, surely the Confederates won the war right?


Without military intervention by Britain or France if was also going to be hard for the CSA to break off from the USA.

9 million people vs 24 million people

Not to mention the South was heavily agricultural while the North was rapidly industrializing (off the back of taxes/tariffs imposed on the south)
Sounds like they probably shouldn't have started the war then.


Voting to leave a artificial political union, one that you voluntarily entered, is not "starting a war"
Bestweekeverr
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Oldbear83 said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Oldbear83 said:

"We"? You were personally there?
He's talking about the young southern men he conscripted to die so that he could keep his slaves.
I thought he'd made a working time machine. If I had one of those, I'd waste it on visiting all the important dates in history, like Baylor beating Texas in football 1974 on their way to the SWC title, or finding a way to sneak in to Indy in 2021 to see us win the Basketball Natty.

Zero interest in being present at a battlefield. Cannot imagine anyone wanting to be in one who has the first idea what that is like.
Agreed, reliving 2014 Baylor TCU would be another to add to the list.

I'm perfectly happy learning about historical battles from reading or movies. I can do without the genuine screams and death.
Bestweekeverr
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Redbrickbear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Redbrickbear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Thee University said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Two questions

1. Who fired the first shots of the Civil War?
2. Why did Abraham Lincoln fight so hard for the 13th Amendment?
The Confederates, in 34 hours, won the first battle of the War of Northern Aggression.

The Confederates also won the final battle of the War of Northern Aggression by trouncing Union forces in the Battle of Palmito Ranch. Colonel Rip Ford chased the Yankees 7 miles before turning back. Body count: Union 117 dead, Confederates 6 dead.


Lincoln fought for the 13th Amendment because it was a WAR MEASURE, not a freedom of the slaves measure.

Lincoln's own Secretary of State said. "We have just freed slaves in territories that we do not control and left them in slavery in territories we do control."

Lincoln was running through generals and generals while getting his ass kicked by Confederates of the small Army of Northern Virginia. Lincoln and his advisors had decided that a Union proclamation freeing slaves in Southern territories would produce a slave rebellion and Lee's invinvible army would run home to protect their wives and children. Wrong!

The misrepresentation of the War of Northern Aggression as Lincoln's war to free slaves is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with Lincoln's view of blacks. Lincoln said, "I have said that the seperation of the races is the only perfect preventitive of amalgamation [of the white & black races]....Such seperation....must be affected by colonization" [sending blacks to Liberia or Central America] "Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and....favorable...to....our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime."

"I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people."

The Great Emancipator??????
Wow with all those victories, surely the Confederates won the war right?


Without military intervention by Britain or France if was also going to be hard for the CSA to break off from the USA.

9 million people vs 24 million people

Not to mention the South was heavily agricultural while the North was rapidly industrializing (off the back of taxes/tariffs imposed on the south)
Sounds like they probably shouldn't have started the war then.


Voting to leave a artificial political union, one that you voluntarily entered, is not "starting a war"
We're looping.

They fired upon an entity they had little choice of winning against, and for some reason today we have a whole bunch of people simping for them.
Redbrickbear
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Bestweekeverr said:

Redbrickbear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Redbrickbear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Thee University said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Two questions

1. Who fired the first shots of the Civil War?
2. Why did Abraham Lincoln fight so hard for the 13th Amendment?
The Confederates, in 34 hours, won the first battle of the War of Northern Aggression.

The Confederates also won the final battle of the War of Northern Aggression by trouncing Union forces in the Battle of Palmito Ranch. Colonel Rip Ford chased the Yankees 7 miles before turning back. Body count: Union 117 dead, Confederates 6 dead.


Lincoln fought for the 13th Amendment because it was a WAR MEASURE, not a freedom of the slaves measure.

Lincoln's own Secretary of State said. "We have just freed slaves in territories that we do not control and left them in slavery in territories we do control."

Lincoln was running through generals and generals while getting his ass kicked by Confederates of the small Army of Northern Virginia. Lincoln and his advisors had decided that a Union proclamation freeing slaves in Southern territories would produce a slave rebellion and Lee's invinvible army would run home to protect their wives and children. Wrong!

The misrepresentation of the War of Northern Aggression as Lincoln's war to free slaves is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with Lincoln's view of blacks. Lincoln said, "I have said that the seperation of the races is the only perfect preventitive of amalgamation [of the white & black races]....Such seperation....must be affected by colonization" [sending blacks to Liberia or Central America] "Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and....favorable...to....our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime."

"I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people."

The Great Emancipator??????
Wow with all those victories, surely the Confederates won the war right?


Without military intervention by Britain or France if was also going to be hard for the CSA to break off from the USA.

9 million people vs 24 million people

Not to mention the South was heavily agricultural while the North was rapidly industrializing (off the back of taxes/tariffs imposed on the south)
Sounds like they probably shouldn't have started the war then.


Voting to leave a artificial political union, one that you voluntarily entered, is not "starting a war"
We're looping.

They fired upon an entity they had little choice of winning against, and for some reason today we have a whole bunch of people simping for them.



South Carolina militia foolishly fired some shots at the fort that killed no one.

Lincoln used it as an excuse to invaded 11 States and wage war on them because they wanted their independence.

He could have just let them go….


PS

3 America soldiers were just killed in Syria at an America base and our ruling class did not even care.

So spare me the "they shot first" drama and BS

Ft Sumter was an excuse to do what the North political class had wanted to do from the beginning….put down secession with violence
Waco1947
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Thee University said:

Waco1947 said:


of course Northerners were racist, but those white boys and later those black boys fault do in slavery. It may not have been in your thoughts or minds and hearts, but the result was the end of slavery.
Can somebody please deciher this for me? I want to respond but I'm confused as to what he is trying to say.

"fault do in slavery"?


fought
Waco1947
KaiBear
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Bestweekeverr said:

Redbrickbear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Redbrickbear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Thee University said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Two questions

1. Who fired the first shots of the Civil War?
2. Why did Abraham Lincoln fight so hard for the 13th Amendment?
The Confederates, in 34 hours, won the first battle of the War of Northern Aggression.

The Confederates also won the final battle of the War of Northern Aggression by trouncing Union forces in the Battle of Palmito Ranch. Colonel Rip Ford chased the Yankees 7 miles before turning back. Body count: Union 117 dead, Confederates 6 dead.


Lincoln fought for the 13th Amendment because it was a WAR MEASURE, not a freedom of the slaves measure.

Lincoln's own Secretary of State said. "We have just freed slaves in territories that we do not control and left them in slavery in territories we do control."

Lincoln was running through generals and generals while getting his ass kicked by Confederates of the small Army of Northern Virginia. Lincoln and his advisors had decided that a Union proclamation freeing slaves in Southern territories would produce a slave rebellion and Lee's invinvible army would run home to protect their wives and children. Wrong!

The misrepresentation of the War of Northern Aggression as Lincoln's war to free slaves is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with Lincoln's view of blacks. Lincoln said, "I have said that the seperation of the races is the only perfect preventitive of amalgamation [of the white & black races]....Such seperation....must be affected by colonization" [sending blacks to Liberia or Central America] "Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and....favorable...to....our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime."

"I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people."

The Great Emancipator??????
Wow with all those victories, surely the Confederates won the war right?


Without military intervention by Britain or France if was also going to be hard for the CSA to break off from the USA.

9 million people vs 24 million people

Not to mention the South was heavily agricultural while the North was rapidly industrializing (off the back of taxes/tariffs imposed on the south)
Sounds like they probably shouldn't have started the war then.


Voting to leave a artificial political union, one that you voluntarily entered, is not "starting a war"
We're looping.

They fired upon an entity they had little choice of winning against, and for some reason today we have a whole bunch of people simping for them.
Lincoln had ordered supplies and reinforcements for the fort.

Making it imperative for the southerners to attack and take possession before the reinforcements arrived .
Bestweekeverr
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KaiBear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Redbrickbear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Redbrickbear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Thee University said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Two questions

1. Who fired the first shots of the Civil War?
2. Why did Abraham Lincoln fight so hard for the 13th Amendment?
The Confederates, in 34 hours, won the first battle of the War of Northern Aggression.

The Confederates also won the final battle of the War of Northern Aggression by trouncing Union forces in the Battle of Palmito Ranch. Colonel Rip Ford chased the Yankees 7 miles before turning back. Body count: Union 117 dead, Confederates 6 dead.


Lincoln fought for the 13th Amendment because it was a WAR MEASURE, not a freedom of the slaves measure.

Lincoln's own Secretary of State said. "We have just freed slaves in territories that we do not control and left them in slavery in territories we do control."

Lincoln was running through generals and generals while getting his ass kicked by Confederates of the small Army of Northern Virginia. Lincoln and his advisors had decided that a Union proclamation freeing slaves in Southern territories would produce a slave rebellion and Lee's invinvible army would run home to protect their wives and children. Wrong!

The misrepresentation of the War of Northern Aggression as Lincoln's war to free slaves is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with Lincoln's view of blacks. Lincoln said, "I have said that the seperation of the races is the only perfect preventitive of amalgamation [of the white & black races]....Such seperation....must be affected by colonization" [sending blacks to Liberia or Central America] "Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and....favorable...to....our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime."

"I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people."

The Great Emancipator??????
Wow with all those victories, surely the Confederates won the war right?


Without military intervention by Britain or France if was also going to be hard for the CSA to break off from the USA.

9 million people vs 24 million people

Not to mention the South was heavily agricultural while the North was rapidly industrializing (off the back of taxes/tariffs imposed on the south)
Sounds like they probably shouldn't have started the war then.


Voting to leave a artificial political union, one that you voluntarily entered, is not "starting a war"
We're looping.

They fired upon an entity they had little choice of winning against, and for some reason today we have a whole bunch of people simping for them.
Lincoln had ordered supplies and reinforcements for the fort.

Making it imperative for the southerners to attack and take possession before the reinforcements arrived .


Resupplying your own fort is not a declaration of war lol

It was imperative for the south to not attack and start a war that they couldn't win.
KaiBear
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Bestweekeverr said:

KaiBear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Redbrickbear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Redbrickbear said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Thee University said:

Bestweekeverr said:

Two questions

1. Who fired the first shots of the Civil War?
2. Why did Abraham Lincoln fight so hard for the 13th Amendment?
The Confederates, in 34 hours, won the first battle of the War of Northern Aggression.

The Confederates also won the final battle of the War of Northern Aggression by trouncing Union forces in the Battle of Palmito Ranch. Colonel Rip Ford chased the Yankees 7 miles before turning back. Body count: Union 117 dead, Confederates 6 dead.


Lincoln fought for the 13th Amendment because it was a WAR MEASURE, not a freedom of the slaves measure.

Lincoln's own Secretary of State said. "We have just freed slaves in territories that we do not control and left them in slavery in territories we do control."

Lincoln was running through generals and generals while getting his ass kicked by Confederates of the small Army of Northern Virginia. Lincoln and his advisors had decided that a Union proclamation freeing slaves in Southern territories would produce a slave rebellion and Lee's invinvible army would run home to protect their wives and children. Wrong!

The misrepresentation of the War of Northern Aggression as Lincoln's war to free slaves is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with Lincoln's view of blacks. Lincoln said, "I have said that the seperation of the races is the only perfect preventitive of amalgamation [of the white & black races]....Such seperation....must be affected by colonization" [sending blacks to Liberia or Central America] "Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and....favorable...to....our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime."

"I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people."

The Great Emancipator??????
Wow with all those victories, surely the Confederates won the war right?


Without military intervention by Britain or France if was also going to be hard for the CSA to break off from the USA.

9 million people vs 24 million people

Not to mention the South was heavily agricultural while the North was rapidly industrializing (off the back of taxes/tariffs imposed on the south)
Sounds like they probably shouldn't have started the war then.


Voting to leave a artificial political union, one that you voluntarily entered, is not "starting a war"
We're looping.

They fired upon an entity they had little choice of winning against, and for some reason today we have a whole bunch of people simping for them.
Lincoln had ordered supplies and reinforcements for the fort.

Making it imperative for the southerners to attack and take possession before the reinforcements arrived .


Resupplying your own fort is not a declaration of war lol

It was imperative for the south to not attack and start a war that they couldn't win.


In Union hands the fort would have easily prevented critical shipping from docking in Charleston harbor .

Once reinforcements arrived it would have taken weeks or even months for the confederates to occupy.

Lincoln was very clever .

He realized the locals would soon have to attack or lose use of a vital port .
C. Jordan
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Thee University said:

Many Americans cherish the image of Honest Abe Lincoln: a lad born in humble circumstances who succeeded by hard, sleeves-rolled-up work; became President, fulfilling his lifelong goal of freeing the slaves, meanwhile saving government of, by and for the people; and was martyred and wafted to Heaven by angels.
This image is folklore, no more related to the facts of Lincoln's career than the legend of Paul Bunyan, but the image seems ineradicable. For many it serves as the cornerstone of their identity as members of a peculiarly virtuous American nation, as a substitute for religion and cultural heritage. I say folklore and not myth because a genuine myth rises from the people, but folklore is an artificial commercial product.
There has always been a minority who have questioned the folklore. They have pointed out that Lincoln was a wealthy corporation lawyer and a crafty and pathologically ambitious politician, who had an ambiguous and opportunistic relationship to slavery and Christianity. Who carried out a cruel war of invasion and conquest against other Americans, countenancing total war against civilians. Who caused a war that he thought would give him a short and easy victory but led to the greatest bloodbath in American history. Who turned loose the slaves without any interest in their survival or progress. Who installed the rule of Big Business in U.S. affairs. And who violently changed the American regime from a Union into a centralized empire.
There are some, like George Will and James McPherson, who admit that Lincoln made a revolutionary change in our country but praise that as a good thing. But many of us who are dissatisfied with living in a decaying American empire think that Lincoln revolution is the key to many of today's ills and that Americans must obtain a realistic view of his history in order to recover a healthy course.
The anti-Lincoln argument has created a great literature in the past few decades. Dr. Thomas DiLorenzo's works, The Real Lincoln and Lincoln Unmasked are seminal in this effort. The poet Edgar Lee Masters's expose' from the early 20th century, Lincoln-The Man, has been republished. We also have Charles T. Pace, Lincoln as He Really Was; Jonathan White, Northern Opposition to Mr. Lincoln's War; John A. Emison, Lincoln Uber Ales; Howard White, Rebirthing Lincoln; and recently Walter D. Kennedy and Al Benson, Lincoln, Marx, and the GOP, and Kennedy's Lincoln: Non-Christian President. I understand there is a book in process with new information about Lincoln's less than philanthropic treatment of the slaves acquired from his wife's family.
"Lincoln's Quest for Empire," a new two-hour documentary, is a splendid addition to the true Lincoln case. One viewer writes: "I didn't think anyone in our times had the courage to tell the truth on so many levels." Another says: "You will never find anywhere a superior presentation in word and picture of what happened in those {Lincoln] years and its questionable results."
The documentary was produced by the Seppi family of Californiaa long project based on their own knowledge and resources. They are neither professional historians nor professional documentary makers, but they have mastered both crafts superbly.
There are beautiful pictorial selections and a dozen extended interviews covering every varied aspect of the Lincoln case with a very appropriate theme "Lincoln's Quest for Empire." Among the many interviewed are people who will be recognized by most readers of this siteDonald Kennedy, Donald Livingston, Paul Graham, the Rev. J. Steven Wilkins, the Rev. Douglas Wilson, Kirkpatrick Sale, and others.
Here is a good and unique presentation of those troubled years of American history, the long effects of which trouble many of us today. The DVD can be acquired at https://lincolnsquestforempire.com and other formats will become available
This is complete, and I mean complete garbage. Typical of the Civil War revisionism you foist on us.

You can't even post the source you cut and pasted this from.

The underlying argument is the tired, worn-out, and never true trope of the Noble Lost Cause.

Instead of trying to revise the Civil War, why not do something more constructive?

C. Jordan
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Vae Victis said:

Thee University said:

Many Americans cherish the image of Honest Abe Lincoln: a lad born in humble circumstances who succeeded by hard, sleeves-rolled-up work; became President, fulfilling his lifelong goal of freeing the slaves, meanwhile saving government of, by and for the people; and was martyred and wafted to Heaven by angels.
This image is folklore, no more related to the facts of Lincoln's career than the legend of Paul Bunyan, but the image seems ineradicable. For many it serves as the cornerstone of their identity as members of a peculiarly virtuous American nation, as a substitute for religion and cultural heritage. I say folklore and not myth because a genuine myth rises from the people, but folklore is an artificial commercial product.
There has always been a minority who have questioned the folklore. They have pointed out that Lincoln was a wealthy corporation lawyer and a crafty and pathologically ambitious politician, who had an ambiguous and opportunistic relationship to slavery and Christianity. Who carried out a cruel war of invasion and conquest against other Americans, countenancing total war against civilians. Who caused a war that he thought would give him a short and easy victory but led to the greatest bloodbath in American history. Who turned loose the slaves without any interest in their survival or progress. Who installed the rule of Big Business in U.S. affairs. And who violently changed the American regime from a Union into a centralized empire.
There are some, like George Will and James McPherson, who admit that Lincoln made a revolutionary change in our country but praise that as a good thing. But many of us who are dissatisfied with living in a decaying American empire think that Lincoln revolution is the key to many of today's ills and that Americans must obtain a realistic view of his history in order to recover a healthy course.
The anti-Lincoln argument has created a great literature in the past few decades. Dr. Thomas DiLorenzo's works, The Real Lincoln and Lincoln Unmasked are seminal in this effort. The poet Edgar Lee Masters's expose' from the early 20th century, Lincoln-The Man, has been republished. We also have Charles T. Pace, Lincoln as He Really Was; Jonathan White, Northern Opposition to Mr. Lincoln's War; John A. Emison, Lincoln Uber Ales; Howard White, Rebirthing Lincoln; and recently Walter D. Kennedy and Al Benson, Lincoln, Marx, and the GOP, and Kennedy's Lincoln: Non-Christian President. I understand there is a book in process with new information about Lincoln's less than philanthropic treatment of the slaves acquired from his wife's family.
"Lincoln's Quest for Empire," a new two-hour documentary, is a splendid addition to the true Lincoln case. One viewer writes: "I didn't think anyone in our times had the courage to tell the truth on so many levels." Another says: "You will never find anywhere a superior presentation in word and picture of what happened in those {Lincoln] years and its questionable results."
The documentary was produced by the Seppi family of Californiaa long project based on their own knowledge and resources. They are neither professional historians nor professional documentary makers, but they have mastered both crafts superbly.
There are beautiful pictorial selections and a dozen extended interviews covering every varied aspect of the Lincoln case with a very appropriate theme "Lincoln's Quest for Empire." Among the many interviewed are people who will be recognized by most readers of this siteDonald Kennedy, Donald Livingston, Paul Graham, the Rev. J. Steven Wilkins, the Rev. Douglas Wilson, Kirkpatrick Sale, and others.
Here is a good and unique presentation of those troubled years of American history, the long effects of which trouble many of us today. The DVD can be acquired at https://lincolnsquestforempire.com and other formats will become available


Dumbest post I've read in awhile.

Poor Thee has to come around and wave the Stars and Bars every now and again.
Thee University
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C. Jordan said:


Poor Thee has to come around and wave the Stars and Bars every now and again.


Stars & Bars








Battle Flag of Northern Virginia





Army of Tennessee


Bonnie Blue


Nothing poor about it.



"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
Thee University
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C. Jordan said:


This is complete, and I mean complete garbage. Typical of the Civil War revisionism you foist on us.

You can't even post the source you cut and pasted this from.

The underlying argument is the tired, worn-out, and never true trope of the Noble Lost Cause.

Instead of trying to revise the Civil War, why not do something more constructive?


Typical response from a liberal puke who can't admit the truth about shyster Lincoln who sacrificed 600,000 to 750,000 lives & changed his reasons for the war multiple times. Typical politician who bent over and grabbed his ankles for New York City $$$$ men,

Why should I quote the source of Lincoln's own words and his recorded speeches when your brain is incapable of reason?

I honor both the Confederate and Union soldier. I've got over 50 veterans identified and verified as my kin. Only 1 is confirmed to have had a slave and he sold that slave when he entered Texas around 1842 from Virginia. I'm certainly not proud of his owning a slave but I don't believe he eventually joined up to fight to preserve slavery. At least 3 of my War of Northern Aggression kinfolks were clergy in the war and after the war.

I enjoy discussing history and trying to understand why some of you and your kind are so reluctant to admit our government lied and continues to lie to us mere mortals.
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
Vae Victis
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Thee University said:

C. Jordan said:


This is complete, and I mean complete garbage. Typical of the Civil War revisionism you foist on us.

You can't even post the source you cut and pasted this from.

The underlying argument is the tired, worn-out, and never true trope of the Noble Lost Cause.

Instead of trying to revise the Civil War, why not do something more constructive?


Typical response from a liberal puke who can't admit the truth about shyster Lincoln who sacrificed 600,000 to 750,000 lives & changed his reasons for the war multiple times. Typical politician who bent over and grabbed his ankles for New York City $$$$ men,

Why should I quote the source of Lincoln's own words and his recorded speeches when your brain is incapable of reason?

I honor both the Confederate and Union soldier. I've got over 50 veterans identified and verified as my kin. Only 1 is confirmed to have had a slave and he sold that slave when he entered Texas around 1842 from Virginia. I'm certainly not proud of his owning a slave but I don't believe he eventually joined up to fight to preserve slavery. At least 3 of my War of Northern Aggression kinfolks were clergy in the war and after the war.

I enjoy discussing history and trying to understand why some of you and your kind are so reluctant to admit our government lied and continues to lie to us mere mortals.
Nothing wrong with discussing history, but when you revise and constantly bring up old, discredited BS, expect to be called out on it.
Vae Victis
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Thee you might try watching a real historian.

Vae Victis
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I just watched that clip from Thee's DVD and what a joke! It's horrible and full of crap. I didn't think you were so gullible and dumb Thee. It was hilariously bad!
Thee University
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A real historian?

I've never seen a talking ***** before but that career ladder climbing wanna be is a classic. Any time a retired officer squeezes into his dress uniform and works shamelessly to promote himself or a virtue signalling cause he knows will increase his $$$, look out.

I tried to take him seriously but he made my skin crawl. Keep trying Vae Victis. You've vanquished yourself.



Your boy reminded me of this tool!
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
Vae Victis
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Thee University said:

A real historian?

I've never seen a talking ***** before but that career ladder climbing wanna be is a classic. Any time a retired officer squeezes into his dress uniform and works shamelessly to promote himself or a virtue signalling cause he knows will increase his $$$, look out.

I tried to take him seriously but he made my skin crawl. Keep trying Vae Victis. You've vanquished yourself.



Your boy reminded me of this tool!
Virtue signaling? You post some propaganda bs by a couple of weird a$$ pastors and then you call it history and then make fun of a West Point historian? I've seen all I need to know.
Thee University
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Vae Victis said:

Thee University said:

A real historian?

I've never seen a talking ***** before but that career ladder climbing wanna be is a classic. Any time a retired officer squeezes into his dress uniform and works shamelessly to promote himself or a virtue signalling cause he knows will increase his $$$, look out.

I tried to take him seriously but he made my skin crawl. Keep trying Vae Victis. You've vanquished yourself.



Your boy reminded me of this tool!
Virtue signaling? You post some propaganda bs by a couple of weird a$$ pastors and then you call it history and then make fun of a West Point historian? I've seen all I need to know.
Am I supposed to be in awe and automatically accept a career military flunky's ideas on history because he has a title of West Point historian? Screw that. Our military is more woke today than ever before. Those pastors you called weird @$$ aren't in this for a title or for $$$.

I want more from you! Give me more entertainment and BS!

I do hope however, that you reside north of the Mason Dixon for I believe your alligator mouth has prob
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
Redbrickbear
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Vae Victis said:

Thee University said:

A real historian?

I've never seen a talking ***** before but that career ladder climbing wanna be is a classic. Any time a retired officer squeezes into his dress uniform and works shamelessly to promote himself or a virtue signalling cause he knows will increase his $$$, look out.

I tried to take him seriously but he made my skin crawl. Keep trying Vae Victis. You've vanquished yourself.



Your boy reminded me of this tool!
Virtue signaling? You post some propaganda bs by a couple of weird a$$ pastors and then you call it history and then make fun of a West Point historian? I've seen all I need to know.


Ty Seidule is a very political guy and has been front in center as the go to "Anti-southern" and "anti-confederate" advocate

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ty_Seidule


He is a very political general…Democrats and liberals in Congress call on him constantly.

He is also not surprisingly a very big DEI advocate within the military.

He was on the naming commission (put there because he was politically reliable and progressive) and demanded they tear down the Confederate grave memorial at Arlington national cemetery.

He is no neutral commentator of American history.





Thee University
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Thank you Redbrick for posting the truth about this yahoo who is a prime reason our military is weaker and less motivated than it has ever been. He is a prime reason we can't meet our recruitment goals. I wonder if he ever participated in any truly important firefights or if he played video games and dabbled in moving soldiers around on a model board.

What is readily apparent is that this wokester of the worst kind made an @$$ out of himself in the video and was exposed for what he really is. He is an opportuistic poser making bank by virtue signalling and clutching the coattails of Joe Biden and his rainbow cabinet. Sickening!

Vae wants to believe this shyster so badly and gobbled down his lies and mischaracterizations. Robert E. Lee was one of our finest leaders, soldiers and men our nation has ever produced. You throw your "support" behind this dolled-up pansy-@$$? I'll take a Robert E. Lee over the pretend warrior every day.
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
Waco1947
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"Ty Seidule scorches us with the truth and rivets us with his fierce sense of moral urgency." --Ron Chernow
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250239266/roberteleeandme
Waco1947
Redbrickbear
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Waco1947 said:

"Ty Seidule scorches us with the truth and rivets us with his fierce sense of moral urgency." --Ron Chernow
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250239266/roberteleeandme


Hard to think of something more ridiculous than a nobody like Ty Seidule writing a book and putting Robert E Lee's name on the cover along with his…

The two could not have any less in common.

It was, and is, and very cynical attempt to cash in on the Southern iconoclasm taking place since 2015.
Waco1947
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Redbrickbear said:

Waco1947 said:

"Ty Seidule scorches us with the truth and rivets us with his fierce sense of moral urgency." --Ron Chernow
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250239266/roberteleeandme


Hard to think of something more ridiculous than a nobody like Ty Seidule writing a book and putting Robert E Lee's name on the cover along with his…

The two could not have any less in common.

It was, and is, and very cynical attempt to cash in on the Southern iconoclasm taking place since 2015.

Did you read it? Your comment appears off target. Ty exposed the racism of Lee and the south's and West Point's continuing adoration of Lee.
Waco1947
Thee University
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Waco1947 said:

Redbrickbear said:

Waco1947 said:

"Ty Seidule scorches us with the truth and rivets us with his fierce sense of moral urgency." --Ron Chernow
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250239266/roberteleeandme


Hard to think of something more ridiculous than a nobody like Ty Seidule writing a book and putting Robert E Lee's name on the cover along with his…

The two could not have any less in common.

It was, and is, and very cynical attempt to cash in on the Southern iconoclasm taking place since 2015.

Did you read it? Your comment appears off target. Ty exposed the racism of Lee and the south's and West Point's continuing adoration of Lee.
Your Ty exposed nothing that was not already known for the past 155+ years. Robert E. Lee was one of the greatest generals West Point ever produced. The grandstanding Seidule is an embarrassment to the uniform, West Point and all military personnel. All he has done is pad an already rainbow resume, fleece Americans and institutions with his BLM rhetoric and generally cause real men to throw up in their mouths. What a *****! How could any soldier follow that loser?

What of the even more overt and caustic racism of Abraham Lincoln? It's been exposed yet continually camouflaged by Northern "biographers". Without John Wilkes Booth shooting Lincoln old Abraham was headed to the junkyard to rust away next to James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson and the like.

You effeminate limp-wrists go ahead and hitch your wagon to those types who continually weaken our great nation. It's no wonder our nation has degraded to our currnet state.
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
 
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