How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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Oldbear83
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xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Fre3dombear said:

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone


That was written to Jews under the Law BEFORE Grace was revealed to Paul. Law is about works.
So God's Grace is from Paul?

What did Christ say about who goes to Heaven?





Jesus revealed the Doctrine of Grace to Paul for the Gentiles under Grace. Jesus ministered to Jews under the Law


You really need to spend less time trying to sound impressive, and more time speaking with real people, Frodo.

That last answer of yours is as stale and dry as a thirty-year-old Twinkie, and just about as good for someone to digest.
Oldbear83
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Really? What about Jesus praising the faith of the Centurion? What about Jesus making sure His example of loving your neighbor was a Samaritan?

Jesus said "whosoever believes", not 'if you are a good Jew' !!!
xfrodobagginsx
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Wangchung said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Vibrations have nothing to do with it, that's new age non sense.
No, it was drug induced psychosis nonsense written by the brilliant and self-destructive Hunter S Thompson during the scene that is shown as my picture, from the book and later movie, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.



Oh my!
xfrodobagginsx
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Oldbear83 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Fre3dombear said:

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone


That was written to Jews under the Law BEFORE Grace was revealed to Paul. Law is about works.
So God's Grace is from Paul?

What did Christ say about who goes to Heaven?





Jesus revealed the Doctrine of Grace to Paul for the Gentiles under Grace. Jesus ministered to Jews under the Law


You really need to spend less time trying to sound impressive, and more time speaking with real people, Frodo.

That last answer of yours is as stale and dry as a thirty-year-old Twinkie, and just about as good for someone to digest.


I'm flattered that you think I am impressive, but that's not what I am doing. I am stating Biblical facts. Do you need proof of my assertion? Instead of making negative comments, why not ask me to demonstrate my point through Scripture, if you have an issue with it. Or don't you believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Oldbear83
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xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Fre3dombear said:

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone


That was written to Jews under the Law BEFORE Grace was revealed to Paul. Law is about works.
So God's Grace is from Paul?

What did Christ say about who goes to Heaven?





Jesus revealed the Doctrine of Grace to Paul for the Gentiles under Grace. Jesus ministered to Jews under the Law


You really need to spend less time trying to sound impressive, and more time speaking with real people, Frodo.

That last answer of yours is as stale and dry as a thirty-year-old Twinkie, and just about as good for someone to digest.


I'm flattered that you think I am impressive, but that's not what I am doing. I am stating Biblical facts. Do you need proof of my assertion? Instead of making negative comments, why not ask me to demonstrate my point through Scripture, if you have an issue with it. Or don't you believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Frodo, Frodo, you keep picking fights instead of listening.

I pointed out Scripture to you, you might want to consider that instead of just putting your ego up against mine, because you do not stand against me, but against the words from our Lord.

xfrodobagginsx
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Oldbear83 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Fre3dombear said:

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone


That was written to Jews under the Law BEFORE Grace was revealed to Paul. Law is about works.
So God's Grace is from Paul?

What did Christ say about who goes to Heaven?





Jesus revealed the Doctrine of Grace to Paul for the Gentiles under Grace. Jesus ministered to Jews under the Law


You really need to spend less time trying to sound impressive, and more time speaking with real people, Frodo.

That last answer of yours is as stale and dry as a thirty-year-old Twinkie, and just about as good for someone to digest.


I'm flattered that you think I am impressive, but that's not what I am doing. I am stating Biblical facts. Do you need proof of my assertion? Instead of making negative comments, why not ask me to demonstrate my point through Scripture, if you have an issue with it. Or don't you believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Frodo, Frodo, you keep picking fights instead of listening.

I pointed out Scripture to you, you might want to consider that instead of just putting your ego up against mine, because you do not stand against me, but against the words from our Lord.




You quote Scripture out of context, written to Jews under the Law? We are no longer under the Law. We are under Grace as Christ revealed to Paul. Good works do not save. Faith in Christ and His resurrection does. When you add works to Grace, you are saying that Christ's Sacrifice wasn't good enough on it's own to pay for your sins. The Bible says that His blood is the Propitiation for our sins.
Oldbear83
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I clearly cited Christ's teachings in proper context as He taught them.

It is you, and you alone, who defies Christ by limiting His Gospel, Frodo.

Look to Matthew Chapter 8, where Christ plainly said:

"I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."

Oldbear83
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Now as to the matter of works and faith.

Both matter.

Now it is true that we are saved by Christ's atonement alone in terms of works, but IF someone truly repents and becomes a follower of Christ, he or she will do the works which please the Lord.

Scripture is very clear on this point. I cited the examples of alleged believers who proved false by what they did.

It is exceedingly dangerous to presume you are a real follower of Christ just because you want to believe you are. Look to what Jesus said to Peter:

"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Luke 22:31

If Peter was in such danger, we should be very careful of presuming we are safe, just because we do not want to face the danger of falling away.

This is why Paul was so careful to remind the Philippians to 'continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling'. We should all take the same care.
xfrodobagginsx
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Oldbear83 said:

I clearly cited Christ's teachings in proper context as He taught them.

It is you, and you alone, who defies Christ by limiting His Gospel, Frodo.

Look to Matthew Chapter 8, where Christ plainly said:

"I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."





Who was Jesus talking to and Ministering to?
Oldbear83
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xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

I clearly cited Christ's teachings in proper context as He taught them.

It is you, and you alone, who defies Christ by limiting His Gospel, Frodo.

Look to Matthew Chapter 8, where Christ plainly said:

"I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."





Who was Jesus talking to and Ministering to?
It's who he was talking about which matters, Frodo.

The God Who made all of us, always planned to save all of us.
xfrodobagginsx
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Oldbear83 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

I clearly cited Christ's teachings in proper context as He taught them.

It is you, and you alone, who defies Christ by limiting His Gospel, Frodo.

Look to Matthew Chapter 8, where Christ plainly said:

"I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."





Who was Jesus talking to and Ministering to?
It's who he was talking about which matters, Frodo.

The God Who made all of us, always planned to save all of us.



That's not true. Who He was talking to and Ministering to makes a huge difference. They were JEWS who were still under the LAW. And He was Preaching the Kingdom Gospel (Good News). They were to Repent and accept their Messiah because the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand (In Their Midst). In other words, the King (Jesus) was here in the flesh. But Israel rejected their Messiah so where did He go? To heaven. The Kingdom of heaven is not in our midst right now. We are under Paul's Gospel of Grace that the Lord Jesus gave to Him alone for the Gentiles, that we are saved by Grace through Faith Without Works, believing that He died and rose again, shedding His blood as a Sacrifice for our sins. It's His blood Sacrifice that pays for our sins, not good works.
Oldbear83
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Jesus said what He said, not what you claim, Frodo.

Scripture is very clear.

Not sure why you hold Scripture in such contempt.
Oldbear83
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And Paul is not Jesus' superior, just so you know.
xfrodobagginsx
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Oldbear83 said:

Jesus said what He said, not what you claim, Frodo.

Scripture is very clear.

Not sure why you hold Scripture in such contempt.


Jesus told Paul to reveal the message of Grace to the Gentiles that we are no longer under the law. We are under Grace:

Ephesians 3:2 KJV

[2] if ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:


[15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Why do you hold Scripture in contempt? Explain these verses or admit that you are wrong.
Oldbear83
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xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

Jesus said what He said, not what you claim, Frodo.

Scripture is very clear.

Not sure why you hold Scripture in such contempt.


Jesus told Paul to reveal the message of Grace to the Gentiles that we are no longer under the law. We are under Grace:

Ephesians 3:2 KJV

[2] if ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:


[15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Why do you hold Scripture in contempt? Explain these verses or admit that you are wrong.
sigh

Once again, I go with what CHRIST said:

"Whosoever believeth" in John 3:16, not 'if you are a good Jew'



Now I must also remind you that you are also arguing against something I never said.

Yes, we are saved by the Grace of God through the Atonement of Christ. But James makes abundantly clear that IF someone believes in Christ and follows Him, that man or woman WILL produce the fruit of the Spirit.

I showed you the people in the New Testament who thought or pretended to be followers of Christ, but they were not, as their works showed.

This is why James 2:26 reads ""For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

This is why Paul (whom you count more highly than Christ) also said "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" in Phillipians 2:12. He was warning us all not to take our Salvation for granted.

There are many places in the Gospel accounts where we are told that people who first believed fell away. It's very important to heed those warnings and not repeat that mistake.
xfrodobagginsx
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Oldbear83 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

Jesus said what He said, not what you claim, Frodo.

Scripture is very clear.

Not sure why you hold Scripture in such contempt.


Jesus told Paul to reveal the message of Grace to the Gentiles that we are no longer under the law. We are under Grace:

Ephesians 3:2 KJV

[2] if ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:


[15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Why do you hold Scripture in contempt? Explain these verses or admit that you are wrong.
sigh

Once again, I go with what CHRIST said:

"Whosoever believeth" in John 3:16, not 'if you are a good Jew'



Now I must also remind you that you are also arguing against something I never said.

Yes, we are saved by the Grace of God through the Atonement of Christ. But James makes abundantly clear that IF someone believes in Christ and follows Him, that man or woman WILL produce the fruit of the Spirit.

I showed you the people in the New Testament who thought or pretended to be followers of Christ, but they were not, as their works showed.

This is why James 2:26 reads ""For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

This is why Paul (whom you count more highly than Christ) also said "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" in Phillipians 2:12. He was warning us all not to take our Salvation for granted.

There are many places in the Gospel accounts where we are told that people who first believed fell away. It's very important to heed those warnings and not repeat that mistake.


So are you saying that you believe Jesus when He was on the earth, Ministering to the Jews, but you don't believe Him when He reveals a message through Paul? Because Paul's Books ARE the words of Jesus. James was also ministering to Israel who was still observing the Law. James was written BEFORE Paul's writings and message of Grace. Works don't save. Yes there are people who think they are saved, but are not because they don't have true faith in Christ. True faith submits to the will of God, which produces works as the result of faith.
, but it is not works that save, it is Grace through Faith in Christ alone.
Oldbear83
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Jesus > Paul

Once you get that straight, we can talk.

Oh, and maybe pay attention to what I actually write, not what you assume? I promise your boy Paul would want you to do that.
xfrodobagginsx
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Oldbear83 said:

Jesus > Paul

Once you get that straight, we can talk.

Oh, and maybe pay attention to what I actually write, not what you assume? I promise your boy Paul would want you to do that.


Paul's words in the Bible=The Words Of Jesus

Once you get that straight, we can talk.

READ THIS AND THEN READ IT AGAIN. DO YOU REFUTE THIS?

Galatians 1:11-12 KJV

[11] "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. [12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
"
Oldbear83
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xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

Jesus > Paul

Once you get that straight, we can talk.

Oh, and maybe pay attention to what I actually write, not what you assume? I promise your boy Paul would want you to do that.


Paul's words in the Bible=The Words Of Jesus

Once you get that straight, we can talk.

READ THIS AND THEN READ IT AGAIN. DO YOU REFUTE THIS?

Galatians 1:11-12 KJV

[11] "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. [12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
"
From my prior post:

"Yes, we are saved by the Grace of God through the Atonement of Christ. But James makes abundantly clear that IF someone believes in Christ and follows Him, that man or woman WILL produce the fruit of the Spirit."

You argue against a position I never took. But you discount the need for us to DO what Christ commands.

And you continue to speak with pride and anger. Those will not serve you well, Frodo.
xfrodobagginsx
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Oldbear83 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

Jesus > Paul

Once you get that straight, we can talk.

Oh, and maybe pay attention to what I actually write, not what you assume? I promise your boy Paul would want you to do that.


Paul's words in the Bible=The Words Of Jesus

Once you get that straight, we can talk.

READ THIS AND THEN READ IT AGAIN. DO YOU REFUTE THIS?

Galatians 1:11-12 KJV

[11] "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. [12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
"
From my prior post:

"Yes, we are saved by the Grace of God through the Atonement of Christ. But James makes abundantly clear that IF someone believes in Christ and follows Him, that man or woman WILL produce the fruit of the Spirit."

You argue against a position I never took. But you discount the need for us to DO what Christ commands.

And you continue to speak with pride and anger. Those will not serve you well, Frodo.


Stop angrily Falsely accusing others of being angry. I am not angry, but you obviously are because you keep Falsely accusing me.. You must be a Democrat because that's what THEY do. Telling the truth isn't anger. James was writing to Jews observing the Law still.

Who did James write to? Those under Grace? Did they know about Paul's message of Grace? No

James 1:1 KJV
[1] James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Oldbear83
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A rather angry response from you, Frodo.

And you are still arguing personally, not about what I actually said.

Calm down and try again, son.
quash
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xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

joseywales said:

joseywales said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Historical Writings Affirming That Dinosaurs Lived With Men

http://historysevidenceofdinosaursandmen.weebly.com/written.html
Lol what idiots. 300 million years ago
There was none of these guys alive how can people be so gullible
Think about that argument. If 'no one from today was there' discredits a theory, then all theories about ancient times could be dismissed.

I understand you are more about spleen than logic, Josey, but I'm sure you can do better for an argument.


Exactly. Plus the evidence shows different than the Evolutionists want us to believe.

Evidence is on the side of evolution.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
xfrodobagginsx
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quash said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

joseywales said:

joseywales said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Historical Writings Affirming That Dinosaurs Lived With Men

http://historysevidenceofdinosaursandmen.weebly.com/written.html
Lol what idiots. 300 million years ago
There was none of these guys alive how can people be so gullible
Think about that argument. If 'no one from today was there' discredits a theory, then all theories about ancient times could be dismissed.

I understand you are more about spleen than logic, Josey, but I'm sure you can do better for an argument.


Exactly. Plus the evidence shows different than the Evolutionists want us to believe.

Evidence is on the side of evolution.

.

Actually, no it's not. That's what they want you to believe, but it's not true. The fossil record does not support Darwinaen Evolution.
xfrodobagginsx
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Fre3dombear said:

Faith, without works is dead.

If I need faith in my belief that Jesus is the only way to the Father, then I don't want to present with a dead faith, hence works are required.

Sim works get you into Heaven? No. Does faith alone? No.


Works are not required. Works are the result of true faith, but works do not save, faith in Jesus Christ and His Death and Resurrection to pay for your sins saves.
xfrodobagginsx
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The Lions blew it, but the Lion of the Tribe of Judah will never blow it.
quash
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xfrodobagginsx said:

quash said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

joseywales said:

joseywales said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Historical Writings Affirming That Dinosaurs Lived With Men

http://historysevidenceofdinosaursandmen.weebly.com/written.html
Lol what idiots. 300 million years ago
There was none of these guys alive how can people be so gullible
Think about that argument. If 'no one from today was there' discredits a theory, then all theories about ancient times could be dismissed.

I understand you are more about spleen than logic, Josey, but I'm sure you can do better for an argument.


Exactly. Plus the evidence shows different than the Evolutionists want us to believe.

Evidence is on the side of evolution.

.

Actually, no it's not. That's what they want you to believe, but it's not true. The fossil record does not support Darwinaen Evolution.

We've been through this. I show you evidence and you say nuh uh

There is no science on the side on Creationism. Just call it what is: a faith claim. Cuz it's not a truth claim.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
xfrodobagginsx
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quash said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

quash said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

joseywales said:

joseywales said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Historical Writings Affirming That Dinosaurs Lived With Men

http://historysevidenceofdinosaursandmen.weebly.com/written.html
Lol what idiots. 300 million years ago
There was none of these guys alive how can people be so gullible
Think about that argument. If 'no one from today was there' discredits a theory, then all theories about ancient times could be dismissed.

I understand you are more about spleen than logic, Josey, but I'm sure you can do better for an argument.


Exactly. Plus the evidence shows different than the Evolutionists want us to believe.

Evidence is on the side of evolution.

.

Actually, no it's not. That's what they want you to believe, but it's not true. The fossil record does not support Darwinaen Evolution.

We've been through this. I show you evidence and you say nuh uh

There is no science on the side on Creationism. Just call it what is: a faith claim. Cuz it's not a truth claim.



Unfortunately for you, there is a ton of evidence supporting Creationism and Evolution is a faith based lie. It takes more faith to believe in Evolution than it does Creationism.
BusyTarpDuster2017
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quash said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

joseywales said:

joseywales said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Historical Writings Affirming That Dinosaurs Lived With Men

http://historysevidenceofdinosaursandmen.weebly.com/written.html
Lol what idiots. 300 million years ago
There was none of these guys alive how can people be so gullible
Think about that argument. If 'no one from today was there' discredits a theory, then all theories about ancient times could be dismissed.

I understand you are more about spleen than logic, Josey, but I'm sure you can do better for an argument.


Exactly. Plus the evidence shows different than the Evolutionists want us to believe.

Evidence is on the side of evolution.

What is your definition of evolution as it pertains to your argument?
xfrodobagginsx
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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

quash said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Oldbear83 said:

joseywales said:

joseywales said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

Historical Writings Affirming That Dinosaurs Lived With Men

http://historysevidenceofdinosaursandmen.weebly.com/written.html
Lol what idiots. 300 million years ago
There was none of these guys alive how can people be so gullible
Think about that argument. If 'no one from today was there' discredits a theory, then all theories about ancient times could be dismissed.

I understand you are more about spleen than logic, Josey, but I'm sure you can do better for an argument.


Exactly. Plus the evidence shows different than the Evolutionists want us to believe.

Evidence is on the side of evolution.

What is your definition of evolution as it pertains to your argument?


Darwinistic Evolution, one animal kind evolving into another, Macro Evolution. The fact is that there isn't just one missing link, there is a missing link between every single animal kind that thy claimed evolved into another. The fossil record doesn't support Darwinistic Evolution because it never happened that way. There is a type of Evolution that does exist, referred to as Lateral Adaptation, Micro Evolution Within the species. That is where you get all of the different breeds of dogs, cats, horses, ECT. There are different breeds, but they always stay dogs, cats, horses,ECT. They never change into any other type of animal. Darwinistic Evolution also requires an increase in genetic information, which has never been shown to happen, ever.
BusyTarpDuster2017
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Got an answer yet to my question? Apparently you must not have much conviction over your claim about evolution if you're unwilling to answer such a simple question.
xfrodobagginsx
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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Got an answer yet to my question? Apparently you must not have much conviction over your claim about evolution if you're unwilling to answer such a simple question.


I already answered your question.
BusyTarpDuster2017
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xfrodobagginsx said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Got an answer yet to my question? Apparently you must not have much conviction over your claim about evolution if you're unwilling to answer such a simple question.


I already answered your question.
It wasn't your question.
xfrodobagginsx
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Happy Sunday! Find a good Bible Believing Church and attend!!!
xfrodobagginsx
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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Got an answer yet to my question? Apparently you must not have much conviction over your claim about evolution if you're unwilling to answer such a simple question.


I already answered your question.
It wasn't your question.


Who's was it then?
BusyTarpDuster2017
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xfrodobagginsx said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Got an answer yet to my question? Apparently you must not have much conviction over your claim about evolution if you're unwilling to answer such a simple question.


I already answered your question.
It wasn't your question.


Who's was it then?
Do you honestly not know how to tell? Does it not say who I was replying to in the upper right corner? And when you log in, aren't the responses to your comments marked with a blue highlight?
 
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