Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

With Trump the debate was the he automatically had power to have classified documents because he was POTUS which can also be applied to him not having to hand over the documents.

With Biden he took these classified documents long before he was POTUS and never had power to retain those classified documents.

Trump might have more than 80 million votes this election. He has 75M last election and he's damn near polling double now compared to what he was polling then. Waiting to the last minute to convict or even jail him is going to piss off tens of millions of people. They can't do that and expect everything to go back to normal.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

With Trump the debate was the he automatically had power to have classified documents because he was POTUS which can also be applied to him not having to hand over the documents.

With Biden he took these classified documents long before he was POTUS and never had power to retain those classified documents.

Trump might have more than 80 million votes this election. He has 75M last election and he's damn near polling double now compared to what he was polling then. Waiting to the last minute to convict or even jail him is going to piss off tens of millions of people. They can't do that and expect everything to go back to normal.

---

Yea, I never bought that defense, and found it a bit ridiculous, quite frankly. I don't see anyway it holds up in court, but Trump likes to make a lot of novel (albeit unsuccessful) legal arguments. Again, I don't disagree with you that what Biden did was illegal, but believe the response to that conduct is what got Trump charged. It was foolish of him not to simply turn over the docs.

Think we will just have to agree to disagree on whether a conviction helps him outside of his base. Haven't seen a single poll supporting that position. Everyone I have seen says just the opposite.

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

The idea that these two men aren't treated differently is just burying your head in the sand. The media spent 4+ years attacking Trump and carrying water for the democrat party and has now spent the last 4 reciting scripted softball questions for Biden. Biden wasn't charged even after a report admitting his actions did rise to the level of being charged. Hunter has largely escaped legal action. So did Hillary. Schiff has openly lied and gotten away with it. The crooked FBI agents who were stooping each other and pushing lies to hurt trump were never charged, IIRC. We don't even have to mention Epstein's client list.

Meanwhile Trump has been impeached twice and charged with every piece of crap case politically charged local DAs can conjure up. The one in New York literally took office promising to find something to charge him with. That is a gross abuse of power. You identify a crime, and then pursue a suspect. You don't identify I suspect and then search for a crime. It is anti-American.

Two things can be true at once. Trump is an idiot, he has made things worse for himself, and many of issues are self inflicted. But it is also true that if you have the right politics, either things are ignored, swept under the rug, or at the very least, you aren't subjected to the same level of constant scrutiny. Republicans have rallied behind Trump because he is constantly on the defense against bad actors in DC and elsewhere. So it makes him come across as a victim and someone to defend. He faces many of the same accusations republicans feel like they get daily just for not being a democrat. He is, therefore, a stand in for them who has been willing to take the slings and arrows.

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Although I'm not a Republican, I feel sorry for the party. Trump treating them like Atlantic City.

---

ADHD moment.. the silver ball arcade in Atlantic City is a hidden gem. You could spend hours in there playing vintage pinball machines

FormerFlash said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

The idea that these two men aren't treated differently is just burying your head in the sand. The media spent 4+ years attacking Trump and carrying water for the democrat party and has now spent the last 4 reciting scripted softball questions for Biden. Biden wasn't charged even after a report admitting his actions did rise to the level of being charged. Hunter has largely escaped legal action. So did Hillary. Schiff has openly lied and gotten away with it. The crooked FBI agents who were stooping each other and pushing lies to hurt trump were never charged, IIRC. We don't even have to mention Epstein's client list.

Meanwhile Trump has been impeached twice and charged with every piece of crap case politically charged local DAs can conjure up. The one in New York literally took office promising to find something to charge him with. That is a gross abuse of power. You identify a crime, and then pursue a suspect. You don't identify I suspect and then search for a crime. It is anti-American.

Two things can be true at once. Trump is an idiot, he has made things worse for himself, and many of issues are self inflicted. But it is also true that if you have the right politics, either things are ignored, swept under the rug, or at the very least, you aren't subjected to the same level of constant scrutiny. Republicans have rallied behind Trump because he is constantly on the defense against bad actors in DC and elsewhere. So it makes him come across as a victim and someone to defend. He faces many of the same accusations republicans feel like they get daily just for not being a democrat. He is, therefore, a stand in for them who has been willing to take the slings and arrows.

---

Just to clarify, I never said or suggested the two men aren't treated differently. Instead, I said the reason Trump is being charged with a crime while Biden is not may be due to the fact that he obstructed justice, as opposed to willingly handing over the documents.

You're reading way more into my post than what I said.

Mothra said:

---

FormerFlash said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

The idea that these two men aren't treated differently is just burying your head in the sand. The media spent 4+ years attacking Trump and carrying water for the democrat party and has now spent the last 4 reciting scripted softball questions for Biden. Biden wasn't charged even after a report admitting his actions did rise to the level of being charged. Hunter has largely escaped legal action. So did Hillary. Schiff has openly lied and gotten away with it. The crooked FBI agents who were stooping each other and pushing lies to hurt trump were never charged, IIRC. We don't even have to mention Epstein's client list.

Meanwhile Trump has been impeached twice and charged with every piece of crap case politically charged local DAs can conjure up. The one in New York literally took office promising to find something to charge him with. That is a gross abuse of power. You identify a crime, and then pursue a suspect. You don't identify I suspect and then search for a crime. It is anti-American.

Two things can be true at once. Trump is an idiot, he has made things worse for himself, and many of issues are self inflicted. But it is also true that if you have the right politics, either things are ignored, swept under the rug, or at the very least, you aren't subjected to the same level of constant scrutiny. Republicans have rallied behind Trump because he is constantly on the defense against bad actors in DC and elsewhere. So it makes him come across as a victim and someone to defend. He faces many of the same accusations republicans feel like they get daily just for not being a democrat. He is, therefore, a stand in for them who has been willing to take the slings and arrows.

---

Just to clarify, I never said or suggested the two men aren't treated differently. Instead, I said the reason Trump is being charged with a crime while Biden is not may be due to the fact that he obstructed justice, as opposed to willingly handing over the documents.

You're reading way more into my post than what I said.

---

Trump is sloppy and impulsive, that is why is in Court. He doesn't think, he just does. He has left ALOT of loose ends for the Dems to prosecute him over.

As opposed to Biden, who is more crooked but is either smarter or has better people not leaving as many loose ends that can be leveraged into lawsuits. The GOP HOR has been looking for almost 3.5 years and we still don't have enough for impeachment. By the time they are ready, Biden will have served over 80% pf his term.

Being treated the same has to do with how easy Trump makes it.

Nikki Haley calls for all Trump legal cases to be 'dealt with' before the presidential election:

“I think all of the cases should be dealt with before November. We need to know what’s going to happen before it, before the presidency happens, because after that, should he become… pic.twitter.com/k0PXkPFX8O

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) March 1, 2024

Under Trump, Republicans keep losing.

In Michigan, they’ve lost the governor’s mansion, the Statehouse, and the state Senate.
In Minnesota, same thing.
In Colorado, only one statewide GOP candidate has gotten more than 45% of the vote since 2016.

Let’s stop losing with Trump.…

— Nikki Haley (@NikkiHaley) March 1, 2024

boognish_bear said:

---

Nikki Haley calls for all Trump legal cases to be 'dealt with' before the presidential election:

“I think all of the cases should be dealt with before November. We need to know what’s going to happen before it, before the presidency happens, because after that, should he become… pic.twitter.com/k0PXkPFX8O

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) March 1, 2024

---

and now you know why she is staying in the race

boognish_bear said:

---

Under Trump, Republicans keep losing.

In Michigan, they’ve lost the governor’s mansion, the Statehouse, and the state Senate.
In Minnesota, same thing.
In Colorado, only one statewide GOP candidate has gotten more than 45% of the vote since 2016.

Let’s stop losing with Trump.…

— Nikki Haley (@NikkiHaley) March 1, 2024

---

probably has nothing to do with demographics changes.. its trump!

Republicans haven’t won Virginia since 2004.

A new Roanoke College poll shows that I beat Biden by NINE POINTS.

Donald Trump loses by FOUR.

We can’t grow the map and the party with Trump at the top of the ticket. pic.twitter.com/9OL0dBBD3X

— Nikki Haley (@NikkiHaley) March 1, 2024

Nikki Haley: “The republican party is shrinking because he [Trump] is pushing people out of the party.” pic.twitter.com/VgdXxDU6Wc

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) March 1, 2024

boognish_bear said:

---

Republicans haven’t won Virginia since 2004.

A new Roanoke College poll shows that I beat Biden by NINE POINTS.

Donald Trump loses by FOUR.

We can’t grow the map and the party with Trump at the top of the ticket. pic.twitter.com/9OL0dBBD3X

— Nikki Haley (@NikkiHaley) March 1, 2024

---

Trump losing the beltway vs a neocon winning the beltway.. shocker

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

---

lol, its like you didnt read the post before replying

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

---

lol, its like you didnt read the post before replying

---

That seems to be a theme on the subject

Trumpers: "Biden did the same thing, it's a biased prosecution!"

Everyone else: "No, what Trump did was different and far worse, for factual reasons XYZ"

Trumpers, ignoring all inconvenient facts: "...Biden did the same thing, it's a biased prosecution!"

And round and round it goes.

HuMcK said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

---

lol, its like you didnt read the post before replying

---

That seems to be a theme on the subject

Trumpers: "Biden did the same thing, it's a biased prosecution!"

Everyone else: "No, what Trump did was different and far worse, for factual reasons XYZ"

Trumpers, ignoring all inconvenient facts: "...Biden did the same thing, it's a biased prosecution!"

And round and round it goes.

---

what Trump did and Biden did are not the same and what Biden did is far far worse.. the inly part better is he gave them back no questions asked once he was caught. His crime is worse as he had no arguement at all for having them. At least Trump had the PRA as a possible arguement.

Both should be prosecuted

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

---

lol, its like you didnt read the post before replying

---

How so? He was saying that Trump shouldn't be prosecuted. The problem is that in every case he did what was accused. Whiterock saying POTUS can or cannot means nothing. Whether or not it is politically motivated is irrelevant, he did and gave his opponents the opportunity to prosecute him. These are laws on the books, penalties that exist. Nobody is making anything up to charge him. Just because people don't think he should be charged, doesn't mean the Govt doesn't have the right to charge him.

His innocence or guilt will be determined in court. As for the Docs, they found 100+ documents and 34 classified docs. He didn't give them back, whether you or I like it there is a case. It may be a slap on the wrist, who knows. He was found guilty in NY, where he lives by a jury in his city. Mar Lago has a Rep judge he appointed. If the Supreme Court rules his Jan 6th speech was his job as President, he will be immune. THere is no kangaroo court.

If he or his Attorneys were competent, he would not be in this position. He is sloppy, impulsive and does what he wants no matter the law. That behavior will end up in court. To blame the courts because you like Trump is ridiculous.

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

---

lol, its like you didnt read the post before replying

---

How so? He was saying that Trump shouldn't be prosecuted. The problem is that in every case he did what was accused. Whiterock saying POTUS can or cannot means nothing. Whether or not it is politically motivated is irrelevant, he did and gave his opponents the opportunity to prosecute him. These are laws on the books, penalties that exist. Nobody is making anything up to charge him. Just because people don't think he should be charged, doesn't mean the Govt doesn't have the right to charge him.

His innocence or guilt will be determined in court. As for the Docs, they found 100+ documents and 34 classified docs. He didn't give them back, whether you or I like it there is a case. It may be a slap on the wrist, who knows. He was found guilty in NY, where he lives by a jury in his city. Mar Lago has a Rep judge he appointed. If the Supreme Court rules his Jan 6th speech was his job as President, he will be immune. THere is no kangaroo court.

If he or his Attorneys were competent, he would not be in this position. He is sloppy, impulsive and does what he wants no matter the law. That behavior will end up in court. To blame the courts because you like Trump is ridiculous.

---

He said it should have been a civil case under the PRA and he is being prosecuted unfairly.. not the same thing as not prosecuted.

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

---

lol, its like you didnt read the post before replying

---

How so? He was saying that Trump shouldn't be prosecuted. The problem is that in every case he did what was accused. Whiterock saying POTUS can or cannot means nothing. Whether or not it is politically motivated is irrelevant, he did and gave his opponents the opportunity to prosecute him. These are laws on the books, penalties that exist. Nobody is making anything up to charge him. Just because people don't think he should be charged, doesn't mean the Govt doesn't have the right to charge him.

His innocence or guilt will be determined in court. As for the Docs, they found 100+ documents and 34 classified docs. He didn't give them back, whether you or I like it there is a case. It may be a slap on the wrist, who knows. He was found guilty in NY, where he lives by a jury in his city. Mar Lago has a Rep judge he appointed. If the Supreme Court rules his Jan 6th speech was his job as President, he will be immune. THere is no kangaroo court.

If he or his Attorneys were competent, he would not be in this position. He is sloppy, impulsive and does what he wants no matter the law. That behavior will end up in court. To blame the courts because you like Trump is ridiculous.

---

He said it should have been a civil case under the PRA and he is being prosecuted unfairly.. not the same thing as not prosecuted.

---

So, this is not a law in the criminal code? They are criminally prosecuting a civil law and it made through investigations, Grand Jury, Judge selection and several items sent to the Supreme Court and no one figured that there is no law to charge him?

Same story, different day: today’s Fox News’ poll shows that I beat Biden in the general election by EIGHT POINTS. Trump is up by two points, which is a statistical tie. pic.twitter.com/3LgZmojvma

— Nikki Haley (@NikkiHaley) March 3, 2024

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

---

lol, its like you didnt read the post before replying

---

How so? He was saying that Trump shouldn't be prosecuted. The problem is that in every case he did what was accused. Whiterock saying POTUS can or cannot means nothing. Whether or not it is politically motivated is irrelevant, he did and gave his opponents the opportunity to prosecute him. These are laws on the books, penalties that exist. Nobody is making anything up to charge him. Just because people don't think he should be charged, doesn't mean the Govt doesn't have the right to charge him.

His innocence or guilt will be determined in court. As for the Docs, they found 100+ documents and 34 classified docs. He didn't give them back, whether you or I like it there is a case. It may be a slap on the wrist, who knows. He was found guilty in NY, where he lives by a jury in his city. Mar Lago has a Rep judge he appointed. If the Supreme Court rules his Jan 6th speech was his job as President, he will be immune. THere is no kangaroo court.

If he or his Attorneys were competent, he would not be in this position. He is sloppy, impulsive and does what he wants no matter the law. That behavior will end up in court. To blame the courts because you like Trump is ridiculous.

---

He said it should have been a civil case under the PRA and he is being prosecuted unfairly.. not the same thing as not prosecuted.

---

So, this is not a law in the criminal code? They are criminally prosecuting a civil law and it made through investigations, Grand Jury, Judge selection and several items sent to the Supreme Court and no one figured that there is no law to charge him?

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Same story, different day: today’s Fox News’ poll shows that I beat Biden in the general election by EIGHT POINTS. Trump is up by two points, which is a statistical tie. pic.twitter.com/3LgZmojvma

— Nikki Haley (@NikkiHaley) March 3, 2024

---

the F it is.. Dems have to win by 2 points to carry the electorals.. this isnt rocket science

Also, stop cherry picking the lowest poll in favor of Trump over Biden

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

---

lol, its like you didnt read the post before replying

---

How so? He was saying that Trump shouldn't be prosecuted. The problem is that in every case he did what was accused. Whiterock saying POTUS can or cannot means nothing. Whether or not it is politically motivated is irrelevant, he did and gave his opponents the opportunity to prosecute him. These are laws on the books, penalties that exist. Nobody is making anything up to charge him. Just because people don't think he should be charged, doesn't mean the Govt doesn't have the right to charge him.

His innocence or guilt will be determined in court. As for the Docs, they found 100+ documents and 34 classified docs. He didn't give them back, whether you or I like it there is a case. It may be a slap on the wrist, who knows. He was found guilty in NY, where he lives by a jury in his city. Mar Lago has a Rep judge he appointed. If the Supreme Court rules his Jan 6th speech was his job as President, he will be immune. THere is no kangaroo court.

If he or his Attorneys were competent, he would not be in this position. He is sloppy, impulsive and does what he wants no matter the law. That behavior will end up in court. To blame the courts because you like Trump is ridiculous.

---

He said it should have been a civil case under the PRA and he is being prosecuted unfairly.. not the same thing as not prosecuted.

---

So, this is not a law in the criminal code? They are criminally prosecuting a civil law and it made through investigations, Grand Jury, Judge selection and several items sent to the Supreme Court and no one figured that there is no law to charge him?

---

---

And people are going to support this clown Trump, he is going to continue to make sloppy, impulsive gaffes. The Dems are going to use the law bog him and the GOP down. Welcome to his next Administration. He is even bringing back the people that were bounced out last time. Three impeachments? Four?

Set another record for cabinet members? They were all disloyal RINOs, yeah. Only his family can be trusted. Don Jr Sec of State. Eric Treasury. Ivanka for VP. That's the ticket.

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

---

.....and that a disagreement over the scope of presidential powers has never before been a criminal issue, only civil.

DOJ did not try to prosecute Clinton over the contents of the sock drawer.....

They should have followed precedent and filed civil suit in federal court, argued there, won, then had a court judgment in hand before stepping into the criminal realm. But that isn't helpful for their political agenda, so here we are.

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

---

.....and that a disagreement over the scope of presidential powers has never before been a criminal issue, only civil.

DOJ did not try to prosecute Clinton over the contents of the sock drawer.....

They should have followed precedent and filed civil suit in federal court, argued there, won, then had a court judgment in hand before stepping into the criminal realm. But that isn't helpful for their political agenda, so here we are.

---

He has Classified Documents, not personal tapes or notes, and he wouldn't give them back. There is a difference between notes Trump created and wants to keep and National Security Docs that were used in him doing his job as President. Come on, you know better than anyone that him keeping tapes of his ideas is not the same as keeping Nuclear Sub patrol areas or NATO troop positions. One is truly has property the other is a National Security doc. If Clinton did this you would be going nuts. You like Trump, so we have to do all sorts of gymnastics to make it OK. The guy ain't worth it...

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

---

.....and that a disagreement over the scope of presidential powers has never before been a criminal issue, only civil.

DOJ did not try to prosecute Clinton over the contents of the sock drawer.....

They should have followed precedent and filed civil suit in federal court, argued there, won, then had a court judgment in hand before stepping into the criminal realm. But that isn't helpful for their political agenda, so here we are.

---

He has Classified Documents, not personal tapes or notes, and he wouldn't give them back. There is a difference between notes Trump created and wants to keep and National Security Docs that were used in him doing his job as President. Come on, you know better than anyone that him keeping tapes of his ideas is not the same as keeping Nuclear Sub patrol areas or NATO troop positions. One is truly has property the other is a National Security doc. If Clinton did this you would be going nuts. You like Trump, so we have to do all sorts of gymnastics to make it OK. The guy ain't worth it...

---

Nope. Not for a POTUS who has originating authority.

You keep trying to subject POTUS to classification authorities as though he was an enlisted soldier. He is not. He IS the classification authority itself. But this DOJ is avoiding all the civil questions about limits & scope presidential powers by just presuming he has none and moving forward with prosecution (because the DOJ knows full well it would likely lose in civil court).

So many grey areas here to flesh out about the scope of presidential powers.....but no need, just assume you've won the argument and prosecute. It's exactly analogous to the Colorado ballot question. No trial to determine guilt, just a ruling that he was an insurrectionist, ergo he could not be on the ballot.

You are being uncharacteristically cavalier on roles, rules, procedures, laws, etc....

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

---

And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

---

Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

I don't think Trump has any legitimate defense to the document-taking, and I haven't seen a legal scholar who has studied the issue say otherwise, but I generally agree with your position that there is a double standard.

I simply keep going back to the fact that Trump, instead of doing the correct and right thing by turning the documents over, held onto them, basically daring the govt. to raid his compound to get them. The issue here is that has been viewed as obstruction of justice - something not present in the Biden set of facts.

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

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And she's probably right.

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She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

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Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

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RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

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Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

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Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

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The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

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Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

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Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

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It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

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I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

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Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

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There is still the little issue that he did what he is accused of...

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.....and that a disagreement over the scope of presidential powers has never before been a criminal issue, only civil.

DOJ did not try to prosecute Clinton over the contents of the sock drawer.....

They should have followed precedent and filed civil suit in federal court, argued there, won, then had a court judgment in hand before stepping into the criminal realm. But that isn't helpful for their political agenda, so here we are.

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He has Classified Documents, not personal tapes or notes, and he wouldn't give them back. There is a difference between notes Trump created and wants to keep and National Security Docs that were used in him doing his job as President. Come on, you know better than anyone that him keeping tapes of his ideas is not the same as keeping Nuclear Sub patrol areas or NATO troop positions. One is truly has property the other is a National Security doc. If Clinton did this you would be going nuts. You like Trump, so we have to do all sorts of gymnastics to make it OK. The guy ain't worth it...

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Nope. Not for a POTUS who has originating authority.

You keep trying to subject POTUS to classification authorities as though he was an enlisted soldier. He is not. He IS the classification authority itself. But this DOJ is avoiding all the civil questions about limits & scope presidential powers by just presuming he has none and moving forward with prosecution (because the DOJ knows full well it would likely lose in civil court).

So many grey areas here to flesh out about the scope of presidential powers.....but no need, just assume you've won the argument and prosecute. It's exactly analogous to the Colorado ballot question. No trial to determine guilt, just a ruling that he was an insurrectionist, ergo he could not be on the ballot.

You are being uncharacteristically cavalier on roles, rules, procedures, laws, etc....

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He has originating authority while he is President. No argument.

However, it does not extend for life. The only docs that Trump has any authority over after he leaves the white house is his personal notes, tapes and memoirs. From what I understand, we are not talking those types of documents. We are talking National Security docs. Trump is citizen Trump while this happened, not President Trump. He has to work with the National Archives on what he can keep and what he can't. This isn't a King for life situation.

Jimmy Carter had originating authority so he can take a top secret doc from the white house and nobody can do nothing?? Think about what you are saying.

At the very least, like Trump being on the COL ballot, I have no problem letting the Courts decide. This is very different than the Clinton tapes or the Nixon tapes.

Quote:

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He has originating authority while he is President. No argument.

However, it does not extend for life. The only docs that Trump has any authority over after he leaves the white house is his personal notes, tapes and memoirs. From what I understand, we are not talking those types of documents. We are talking National Security docs. Trump is citizen Trump while this happened, not President Trump. He has to work with the National Archives on what he can keep and what he can't. This isn't a King for life situation.

Jimmy Carter had originating authority so he can take a top secret doc from the white house and nobody can do nothing?? Think about what you are saying.

At the very least, like Trump being on the COL ballot, I have no problem letting the Courts decide. This is very different than the Clinton tapes or the Nixon tapes.

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Do you even think Biden should be charged at all?

Whiskey Pete said:

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Quote:

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He has originating authority while he is President. No argument.

However, it does not extend for life. The only docs that Trump has any authority over after he leaves the white house is his personal notes, tapes and memoirs. From what I understand, we are not talking those types of documents. We are talking National Security docs. Trump is citizen Trump while this happened, not President Trump. He has to work with the National Archives on what he can keep and what he can't. This isn't a King for life situation.

Jimmy Carter had originating authority so he can take a top secret doc from the white house and nobody can do nothing?? Think about what you are saying.

At the very least, like Trump being on the COL ballot, I have no problem letting the Courts decide. This is very different than the Clinton tapes or the Nixon tapes.

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Do you even think Biden should be charged at all?

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Of course he should. When his time as President is over he should answer for his crimes. The general rule has been not charge a sitting President. GOP NEEDS to impeach him. Even as F-ed up the Dems are they didn't charge Trump with anything while President, but the impeached him twice. They actually follow through on their threats.

Mothra said:

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whiterock said:

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Mothra said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Mothra said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Mothra said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Mothra said:

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whiterock said:

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Mothra said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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Mothra said:

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boognish_bear said:

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#NikkiHaley is playing the long game.

She thinks #DonaldTrump will get convicted and be sentenced before November 2024.

She will be the GOP's only option left standing if she has actual delegates.#SouthCarolinaPrimary

— Sophia A. Nelson (@IAmSophiaNelson) February 25, 2024

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And she's probably right.

---

She won't be the only option, even if she has some delegates. That is why all candidates suspend their campaigns as opposed to withdrawing. Even if Trump is convicted (current schedule of trials does not look favorable for a conviction before the convention), his delegates still exist. They will be the ones that have the most influence on the alternate.


Highly doubtful they pick Haley.

---

Here is pulling for a Trump jail sentence, and DeSantis stepping in.

---

RDS would likely win an open floor vote over Haley. That certainly would be who I'd campaign and vote for.

Rules change at every convention. The Rules Committee starts meeting well before the convention starts and the nominee gets effective control over the committee. In general, a nominee cannot "hand over" his/he delegates, per se. They can, however, endorse an alternative and it is reasonable to expect a very high percentage of those delegates to flow with the endorsement.

The analysis that Haley is hoping to position herself as the last candidate in the race should Trump to be disqualified by conviction is not unreasonable. That is not, however, her best shot at the nomination. She would be a near lock to pick up both endorsement and delegates if she was the designated VP. If she is able to run a best-case contest and pick up 40-ish percent of the delegates down the stretch, Trump would be hard-pressed not to pick her....to unify the party. Reagan and Bush could hardly speak to one another as the 1980 campaign wound down. They ended up a successful team.....the conservative insurgent and the establishment player. It's a great structure. Trump would like to avoid it by winning big, and Haley would like to force it by running strong. We will know more after SuperTuesday.

As a general rule of thumb, the longer it goes before Trump announces his VP selection, the greater the chance it will be Haley.

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Hoping and praying for a Trump conviction for the good of the country and the party.

---

Taking Trump out on bogus charges would destroy this country.

---

The documents charges aren't bogus, and will be pretty easy to prove. Yet another one of Trump's self-inflicted wounds. But we don't need another Trump term. There are much better, and less morally-reprehensible, candidates than Trump.

---

Even if they aren't bogus, DC doesn't hold others accountable so they're effectively demonstrating that the rules only apply to specific political affiliation.

That in itself will destroy the country.

---

Meh. I think the issue here is the obstruction of justice charge, which isn't present in Biden's case. Trump literally could have turned the docs over on multiple occasions after they were requested (repeatedly), and if he had done so, this most likely all goes away. It was his decision to thumb his nose at the govt. that ultimately led to the raid and charges. Like I said, it is yet another one of his self-inflicted wounds.

So there are significant distinctions between this case and Biden's - namely, Trump's blatant refusal to turn over the docs when requested. That was extremely stupid, but that's Trump.

---

It was against the law for Biden to even have those documents: its not even up for debate, he straight up didn't have the power to retain those documents. He gets a pass because he's establishment.

Trump is not a perfect candidate and is extremely flawed. If you convict him and confine him to Mar A Lago on house arrest with an ankle monitor, he will have even more support than he currently does and he's currently polling higher than he's ever polled in the aggregate.

It's very much the case that if you attack Trump you only make him stronger. This is what the media and establishment and never trumpers fail to understand. Ignoring him would have made him weak...everyone attacking him is doing the opposite.

---

I don't disagree with you, for the most part. However, I think where you err is assuming that the two men were treated differently simply because one is establishment and the other is not. Again, the failure to charge Biden might be because Trump obstructed justice by stonewalling the govt., whereas Biden simply handed the docs over.

Trump may indeed have more support from his base if he gets arrested, but I don't think it helps him much outside of that, and most likely erodes his support, based on the polling.

---

Biden retained classified materials as Senator and VP. Neither office afforded him origination authority a POTUS has which would afford defense. Moreover, whether or not a former POTUS has power/right to hold classified materials as personal records is an open question in law which should be settled in civil vs criminal court. So you have a large, two-level false dilemma going on.

No question Trump is being prosecuted unfairly for political reasons. It's ok to say that and still hate the guy. It's the kind of principle-splitting lawyers do all the time, defending the guilty in pursuit of the larger principle of ensuring due process for everyone.

What's happening for Trump should scare everyone shyte-less.

---

I don't think Trump has any legitimate defense to the document-taking, and I haven't seen a legal scholar who has studied the issue say otherwise, but I generally agree with your position that there is a double standard.

I simply keep going back to the fact that Trump, instead of doing the correct and right thing by turning the documents over, held onto them, basically daring the govt. to raid his compound to get them. The issue here is that has been viewed as obstruction of justice - something not present in the Biden set of facts.

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but charged under Espionage Act.


A breath-taking abuse of power….

"He has originating authority while he is President. No argument.


However, it does not extend for life. The only docs that Trump has any authority over after he leaves the white house is his personal notes, tapes and memoirs. From what I understand, we are not talking those types of documents. We are talking National Security docs. Trump is citizen Trump while this happened, not President Trump. He has to work with the National Archives on what he can keep and what he can't. This isn't a King for life situation.

Jimmy Carter had originating authority so he can take a top secret doc from the white house and nobody can do nothing?? Think about what you are saying.

At the very least, like Trump being on the COL ballot, I have no problem letting the Courts decide. This is very different than the Clinton tapes or the Nixon tapes."

This is not about originating authority. This is about DOJ choosing to bypass civil litigation to answer extant questions of presidential power and instead levy criminal charges against Trump for purely political purposes. Among valid civil questions are:
-Did Trump declassify the documents prior to leaving office?
-Do prior rulings allow POTUS to deem classified materials as personal records?
There are quite a few more. You and I might disagree in substance on some of them. The proper place to sort those questions out is in civil court. And in every other instance in history, that's where issues of limits of Presidential powers have been hashed out. But civil litigation did not accomplish the political ends DOJ had in mind. First, DOJ might lose on most/all of those questions (and probably would have). Second, even if DOJ won, Trump would then have to option of complying with court order (which would render the issue moot politically).

What DOJ did instead was bypass civil litigation and proceed directly to criminal charges. All of the issues of limits of presidential powers would still have to be litigated, only under the penumbra of criminal charges which would create a never-ending fountain (for the purposes of the 2024 election) of ways to spin Trump as a crook. It deals with the issues in a way which does maximum damage to a man running for President. It's not unlike with the Colorado SC (CSC) did on the ballot issue - the majority knew full well it would get smacked down by SCOTUS, but in the meantime, it created lawfare that would sap resources and distract the Trump campaign and afforded a couple of months of helpful headlines building the narrative about the "threat to democracy."

This is not about espionage (a criminal issue). This is about the limits of presidential powers (a civil issue). DOJ has fooled you into focusing on the former rather than the latter.

Even Trump's detractors admit that had he agreed with the DOJ legal position and handed the documents back, he would not be facing charges. So why is he a criminal for disagreeing with the DOJ legal position on the question of the limits of presidential powers?

whiterock said:

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"He has originating authority while he is President. No argument.


However, it does not extend for life. The only docs that Trump has any authority over after he leaves the white house is his personal notes, tapes and memoirs. From what I understand, we are not talking those types of documents. We are talking National Security docs. Trump is citizen Trump while this happened, not President Trump. He has to work with the National Archives on what he can keep and what he can't. This isn't a King for life situation.

Jimmy Carter had originating authority so he can take a top secret doc from the white house and nobody can do nothing?? Think about what you are saying.

At the very least, like Trump being on the COL ballot, I have no problem letting the Courts decide. This is very different than the Clinton tapes or the Nixon tapes."

This is not about originating authority. This is about DOJ choosing to bypass civil litigation to answer extant questions of presidential power and instead levy criminal charges against Trump for purely political purposes. Among valid civil questions are:
-Did Trump declassify the documents prior to leaving office?
-Do prior rulings allow POTUS to deem classified materials as personal records?
There are quite a few more. You and I might disagree in substance on some of them. The proper place to sort those questions out is in civil court. And in every other instance in history, that's where issues of limits of Presidential powers have been hashed out. But civil litigation did not accomplish the political ends DOJ had in mind. First, DOJ might lose on most/all of those questions (and probably would have). Second, even if DOJ won, Trump would then have to option of complying with court order (which would render the issue moot politically).

What DOJ did instead was bypass civil litigation and proceed directly to criminal charges. All of the issues of limits of presidential powers would still have to be litigated, only under the penumbra of criminal charges which would create a never-ending fountain (for the purposes of the 2024 election) of ways to spin Trump as a crook. It deals with the issues in a way which does maximum damage to a man running for President. It's not unlike with the Colorado SC (CSC) did on the ballot issue - the majority knew full well it would get smacked down by SCOTUS, but in the meantime, it created lawfare that would sap resources and distract the Trump campaign and afforded a couple of months of helpful headlines building the narrative about the "threat to democracy."

This is not about espionage (a criminal issue). This is about the limits of presidential powers (a civil issue). DOJ has fooled you into focusing on the former rather than the latter.

Even Trump's detractors admit that had he agreed with the DOJ legal position and handed the documents back, he would not be facing charges. So why is he a criminal for disagreeing with the DOJ legal position on the question of the limits of presidential powers?

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It is not a negotiation. He can disagree all he wants.m, as long as he gives them the docs they want. It is their call not his typical Trump response, it is not his call. There is enough there to see where this trial goes. If you are right, which I doubt or the Trump appointed Judge would have thrown it out, charges will be dismissed.