Oldbear83 said:

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I can be friends with those who show respect and courtesy. When one drives away posters and only seeks to win arguments, to the point we see here, is not seeking friendship nor wisdom.

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I don't seek friendship in internet forums about Christianity. Friendships should be sought in real life, not in our digital selves. We are here to discuss ideas and truths. None of us, as far as I know, know each other in any meaningful way personally.

Neither do I seek to "win arguments", I merely say what I believe to be true. You do too. So does everyone who's posted here. The problem as I see it is that people (like you) react badly when their "truth" is countered and they don't have a solid answer, so they feel threatened. Defense mechanisms start to go up, and then the name calling begins.

Can you show me an instance where I wasn't being courteous or respectful to anyone who wasn't being courteous or respectful to me first?

And how do you know that YOU aren't the one who drove away posters, and who isn't being courteous and respectful? Haven't you been attacking me instead of discussing what I've been saying? The problem I see with you is that you are more interested in internet "friendship", validating your beliefs, and having everyone going home happy with their beliefs and insights, rather than promoting the truth even if goes against what people believe. Like when you absolutely refused to say that putting one's salvation in the hands of Mary is blasphemous, heretical, and unchristian because you didn't want to offend Catholics. Not telling someone how they are believing in evil, destructive things isn't love for them, it is hate. Neither is that promoting wisdom, that is promoting darkness. So that is MUCH worse than anything you perceive as being discourteous or disrespectful. I can't think of anything more disrespectful and unloving than knowing someone is in danger, and not telling them.

Wow, you wanna talk about lacking self-awareness. Please go back and read your exchanges with curtpenn, RealityBites, or 90sBear. I won't bring up our tete a tete, since your version of what was even written seems severely at variance with what I read when I check the posts.

Question: Why do so many here have aliases with the word Bear as part of them?

xfrodobagginsx said:

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Question: Why do so many here have aliases with the word Bear as part of them?

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First: "Alias" implies an attempt to deceive. That is an incorrect use of the word when addressing usernames. It would be more accurate to use a word like 'screenname', 'handle' or 'nickname'.

Second: Most here are Baylor fans, who commonly refer to themselves as 'Bears'.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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Question: Why do so many here have aliases with the word Bear as part of them?

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Because they all love picnic baskets.

Oldbear83 said:

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Wow, you wanna talk about lacking self-awareness. Please go back and read your exchanges with curtpenn, RealityBites, or 90sBear. I won't bring up our tete a tete, since your version of what was even written seems severely at variance with what I read when I check the posts.

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Right, so you're not able to point to anything. I can point to exactly where you've avoided answering questions and instead attacked the messenger.

I fully agree that the way you read things is going to be different than mine. I really do think you read frodo's and my comments with anger, and that colors your perception to where you're frequently attributing bad faith to our comments, when there really is none. Your lens is one of bitterness.

I could point out many places where you have spoken with the very opposite of Christ's love, BTD, but given this day and weekend, this is not the time for such a post.

I do commend you to spend at least some contemplation on the greater message from our Lord and this season. I shall do the same, and wish you a joyful Easter.

Oldbear83 said:

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I could point out many places where you have spoken with the very opposite of Christ's love, BTD, but given this day and weekend, this is not the time for such a post.

I do commend you to spend at least some contemplation on the greater message from our Lord and this season. I shall do the same, and wish you a joyful Easter.

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No, see, I don't think you really can, because like I said you are reading my comments with anger so you're reading them with that tone already in your mind. I am sure you're reading INTO what's written many times. That's why I want you to point to a specific incident so we can evaluate it fairly. Just generally criticizing someone's comments as the "opposite of Christ's love" isn't helpful.

I also note that you have no problem with other people's comments that are CLEARLY the "opposite of Christ's love" but you don't call out those - you might even be supporting them because they're directed at me. I surely hope that isn't the case. Because then your spite is really getting the better of you. You've even made many spiteful comments here yourself, also clearly the "opposite of Christ's love". I wonder if you are even aware that you're guilty of the very things you're accusing others of. Maybe instead of telling others to contemplate the "greater message of our Lord" and worry about the speck in our eye, you should worry about the plank in yours.

Watch 'The Passion Of The Christ' On UpTV, Telemundo Station @ 8:30 pm & FRNDLY App. Documents The Suffering Of Christ On The Cross 2000 Years Ago For Our Sins.

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS IS ON TONIGHT @ 7 PM ON ABC!!!! HOW GOD TRULY SAVED ISRAEL FROM THE BONDAGE OF SLAVERY & INTO HIS SALVATION!

Happy Resurrection Day! HE IS RISEN INDEED!

He is Risen indeed!

My hope for this thread is to get the Gospel out to as many people as possible, while discussing this very important topic.

4th and Inches said:

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He is Risen indeed!

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Amen!!!

Coke Bear said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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A true Christian cannot lose their Salvation, but they can fall out of fellowship with the Lord and Lose His Peace.

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I posted this a few days ago, but didn't see a direct response. If you answered in another post, I apologize.

]What does this (bolded print) mean?

How does one KNOW that they are a true Christian?

Finally, in Galatian 5:4, St. Paul states to the new Christians, "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the Law; you have fallen away from grace." So if they were severed from Christ, they have obviously were WITH Christ (saved) but they lost salvation.

Fortunately, the Catholic church gives us a way to restore our friendship with Him thru the sacrament of Reconciliation.

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The bold part means that they don't lose their Salvation, but God will chasten a true believer and remove His peace from them. Another way you know if someone is a true Believer is that they will have the Holy Spirit.

The 'You have fallen from Grace' passage is specifically taking to people who are trying to be saved by keeping works/works of the law in order to be saved. If you add anything to the Grace of God, it says you have fallen from grace because you are relying on your own good works added to the Grace of God or in of themselves to get you to heaven. That is exactly what Catholics do with Baptism, Sacraments, ect.

So when Paul wrote "you have fallen away from grace", that's not what he meant, hmm?

Oldbear83 said:

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So when Paull wrote "you have fallen away from grace", that's not what he meant, hmm?

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He did mean that, but Catholics like you don't care and do exactly what he was saying caused a person to 'fall from grace'.... it's by adding works or anything else to the saving grace of God through Faith Alone in the death and resurrection of Christ to pay for our sins.

[ chuckle ] You think I'm a Catholic?

Southern Baptist, which means I take Scripture seriously, don't treat it like Silly Putty.

Oldbear83 said:

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[ chuckle ] You think I'm a Catholic?

Southern Baptist, which means I take Scripture seriously, don't treat it like Silly Putty.

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I am a Southern Baptist and they don't believe you can lose your Salvation. Pentecostals and Charismatics teach that. So do Free Will Baptists and Nazarines and Wesleyans. Not Southern Baptists.

I hope you all had a great Resurrection Day!

xfrodobagginsx said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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[ chuckle ] You think I'm a Catholic?

Southern Baptist, which means I take Scripture seriously, don't treat it like Silly Putty.

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I am a Southern Baptist and they don't believe you can lose your Salvation. Pentecostals and Charismatics teach that. So do Free Will Baptists and Nazarines and Wesleyans. Not Southern Baptists.

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Here is a copy of the Beliefs of the SBC:

Our Beliefs. Southern Baptist Church (sbcboston.org)

Please note the following points from that statement:

IV. "We believe that the Scriptures teach that the salvation of sinners is wholly of grace; through the mediatorial offices of the Son of God"

VI. "We believe that the Scriptures teach that the blessings of salvation are made free to all by the Gospel; that it is the immediate duty of all to accept them by cordial, penitent and obedient faith"

XI. "We believe the Scriptures teach that such only are real believers as endure to the end; that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors"


All this is of course consistent with Scripture. Note the absence of any claim of a thing just because we want it to be so.

Oldbear83 said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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[ chuckle ] You think I'm a Catholic?

Southern Baptist, which means I take Scripture seriously, don't treat it like Silly Putty.

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I am a Southern Baptist and they don't believe you can lose your Salvation. Pentecostals and Charismatics teach that. So do Free Will Baptists and Nazarines and Wesleyans. Not Southern Baptists.

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Here is a copy of the Beliefs of the SBC:

Our Beliefs. Southern Baptist Church (sbcboston.org)

Please note the following points from that statement:

IV. "We believe that the Scriptures teach that the salvation of sinners is wholly of grace; through the mediatorial offices of the Son of God"

VI. "We believe that the Scriptures teach that the blessings of salvation are made free to all by the Gospel; that it is the immediate duty of all to accept them by cordial, penitent and obedient faith"

XI. "We believe the Scriptures teach that such only are real believers as endure to the end; that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors"


All this is of course consistent with Scripture. Note the absence of any claim of a thing just because we want it to be so.

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Like I said, Southern Baptists don't believe that you can lose your Salvation.

"We believe the Scriptures teach that such only are real believers as endure to the end; that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors"

This Quote affirms what I said. Your view is not consistent with that of the Southern Baptist Church. I was a Worship Leader in the SBC for 15 years.

On the contrary, the quote you made specifically says you must persevere, it's not a quick magic phrase but the whole, sincere commitment which is marked by fruit as a believer.

I learned this from a number of ministers. Not gonna name them, because this is not whose minister is better but what Christ actually taught.

Oldbear83 said:

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On the contrary, the quote you made specifically says you must persevere, it's not a quick magic phrase but the whole, sincere commitment which is marked by fruit as a believer.

I learned this from a number of ministers. Not gonna name them, because this is not whose minister is better but what Christ actually taught.

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That's not what it says. It says that a TRUE believer WILL persevere, not because of your own power, but because of the power of God . Your view is not consistent with the SBC. They do NOT believe that a true believer can lose their Salvation. Name a big name SBC Preacher who believes you can lose it? You can't.

Sorry Frodo. but your opinion is wrong, as well as arguing something not what I observed.

Here is what they said: "such only are real believers as endure to the end"

Notice the qualifier "only"? It's there for a reason.

The problem is that some who think they are saved, are not, because they want an easy escape from their consequences, not to commit to truly following Christ.

Christ spoke of "falling away", and the need to persevere. He told parables of "virgins" who were locked out of the wedding because they were not prepared, and how the servant who did nothing with his talent had it taken from him.

Those who think preach and forget is OK, forget that Christ spent years in His ministry and the Church has always been as much about community as the message. It's a process, not a magic phrase.

Christ was plain about that, and the SBC is clearly aligned with that caveat.

Oldbear83 said:

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Sorry Frodo. but your opinion is wrong, as well as arguing something not what I observed.

Here is what they said: "such only are real believers as endure to the end"

Notice the qualifier "only"? It's there for a reason.

The problem is that some who think they are saved, are not, because they want an easy escape from their consequences, not to commit to truly following Christ.

Christ spoke of "falling away", and the need to persevere. He told parables of "virgins" who were locked out of the wedding because they were not prepared, and how the servant who did nothing with his talent had it taken from him.

Those who think preach and forget is OK, forget that Christ spent years in His ministry and the Church has always been as much about community as the message. It's a process, not a magic phrase.

Christ was plain about that, and the SBC is clearly aligned with that caveat.

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The statement is saying that a true believer is defined as one who endures to the end. Those who don't endure were never true believers.

A person is saved if they believe in Jesus Christ, and trust solely in him and his finished work for their salvation. That's it. You don't need to add any requirement by merit or works. If their belief is true, then at the moment of their belief they are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14). They WILL go on to persevere and do good works as a result of the presence of God's spirit within them. These people will NOT "fall away" and won't ever lose their salvation.

BTD: "The statement is saying that a true believer is defined as one who endures to the end. Those who don't endure were never true believers."

Which is why I said long ago, If saved always saved.

But it's also vital to understand that a drive-by post selling Salvation as a one and done gesture is a bad way to help new believers become the kind who persevere.

At the very least, new believers will have a ton of questions, wrestle with doubts and be at risk of listening to false prophets (Joel Osteen, anyone?) And some fall into the trap of believing that now they are saved, they don't need to do anything but enjoy being 'in' with God. That is why we see so many professed believers acting in arrogance and pride.

Oldbear83 said:

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BTD: "The statement is saying that a true believer is defined as one who endures to the end. Those who don't endure were never true believers."

Which is why I said long ago, If saved always saved.

But it's also vital to understand that a drive-by post selling Salvation as a one and done gesture is a bad way to help new believers become the kind who persevere.

At the very least, new believers will have a ton of questions, wrestle with doubts and be at risk of listening to false prophets (Joel Osteen, anyone?) And some fall into the trap of believing that now they are saved, they don't need to do anything but enjoy being 'in' with God. That is why we see so many professed believers acting in arrogance and pride.

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But you haven't been arguing "if saved, always saved". You've been continually arguing that Jesus warned we can lose what we have. I have to assume that you mean we can lose our salvation, but because you constantly dodged requests to be specific and clear, I can't be absolutely sure.

Consider what you just wrote. If you believe in "if saved always saved", then you seem to be contradicting yourself here. Because you're agreeing that with true belief comes salvation.....but then you suggest that "new believers" are not yet saved, because they might not persevere. But if that is the case, then they are not truly new believers, because if they were, then they are saved right when they believe:

"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14)

And lastly, accusing other believers of "arrogance and pride" might really be evidence of your own arrogance and pride.

BTD back to his old bitter self, I see ...

Oldbear83 said:

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BTD back to his old bitter self, I see ...

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Do you honestly think people can't see you're resorting to personal attacks because you realize you're wrong or you can't argue against the point?

It's just become so sadly predictable. And you don't seem to care. That's why I think there's something really wrong with your spirit.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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BTD back to his old bitter self, I see ...

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Do you honestly think people can't see you're resorting to personal attacks because you realize you're wrong or you can't argue against the point?

It's just become so sadly predictable. And you don't seem to care. That's why I think there's something really wrong with your spirit.

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The irony here is palpable ...

Oldbear83 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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BTD back to his old bitter self, I see ...

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Do you honestly think people can't see you're resorting to personal attacks because you realize you're wrong or you can't argue against the point?

It's just become so sadly predictable. And you don't seem to care. That's why I think there's something really wrong with your spirit.

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The irony here is palpable ...

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If you think it's ironic, then prove me wrong -

answer this question: are "new believers" saved?

You fell back to interrogation, I see.

Not playing, son. You seriously need a time out.

Oldbear83 said:

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You fell back to interrogation, I see.

Not playing, son. You seriously need a time out.

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I thought you said you cared about new believers and their questions. What if a new believer asks you if they are saved? What will you tell them? You can try to dodge the question and call me an "interrogator" for asking it all you want, but it'll only prove my point. Are you really letting your pride and arrogance steer you away from your witness?

Oldbear83 said:

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BTD: "The statement is saying that a true believer is defined as one who endures to the end. Those who don't endure were never true believers."

Which is why I said long ago, If saved always saved.

But it's also vital to understand that a drive-by post selling Salvation as a one and done gesture is a bad way to help new believers become the kind who persevere.

At the very least, new believers will have a ton of questions, wrestle with doubts and be at risk of listening to false prophets (Joel Osteen, anyone?) And some fall into the trap of believing that now they are saved, they don't need to do anything but enjoy being 'in' with God. That is why we see so many professed believers acting in arrogance and pride.

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Thanks for your input but telling them about Christ is better than not telling them. If their faith is truly in Christ for Salvation, they will be saved and God will lead them where they need to Go. I can't reach through the computer and Disciple them. I am thankful for this platform to share the Gospel.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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BTD: "The statement is saying that a true believer is defined as one who endures to the end. Those who don't endure were never true believers."

Which is why I said long ago, If saved always saved.

But it's also vital to understand that a drive-by post selling Salvation as a one and done gesture is a bad way to help new believers become the kind who persevere.

At the very least, new believers will have a ton of questions, wrestle with doubts and be at risk of listening to false prophets (Joel Osteen, anyone?) And some fall into the trap of believing that now they are saved, they don't need to do anything but enjoy being 'in' with God. That is why we see so many professed believers acting in arrogance and pride.

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But you haven't been arguing "if saved, always saved". You've been continually arguing that Jesus warned we can lose what we have. I have to assume that you mean we can lose our salvation, but because you constantly dodged requests to be specific and clear, I can't be absolutely sure.

Consider what you just wrote. If you believe in "if saved always saved", then you seem to be contradicting yourself here. Because you're agreeing that with true belief comes salvation.....but then you suggest that "new believers" are not yet saved, because they might not persevere. But if that is the case, then they are not truly new believers, because if they were, then they are saved right when they believe:

"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14)

And lastly, accusing other believers of "arrogance and pride" might really be evidence of your own arrogance and pride.

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Agreed